airsuperiority
Captain
The MP5 is so good, I'd still get the H&K version even if the next knockoff is 1% of the original price
Z-20 (all variants) thread
- Thread starter delft
- Start date
The MP5 is so good, I'd still get the H&K version even if the next knockoff is 1% of the original price
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
first If airsuperiority could by A HK MP5 brand new It would likely be a Current Production A2 Or A3 types Where as the NR08 Is based on the older HK54 Specs There are key differences in the materials and production Which make it a Clone but not a True copy and So Too would this be.
The PLA has access too S70c types sold pre-Embargo back In the 1980's these are not the same as the modern H60M type Currently entering and In US Service. Building of Air frames by china would demand a lot of work as the build would need new engines as well as a Transmission. and Does any one really think the PLA would or even could get there hands on 30 year old Avionics too mate in it? She may look like a Blackhawk but she will be a ChineseHawk. They can copy too a point but only so far and so long. Modern needs will demand there own work.
Another point is that Sikorsky is likely looking into the JMR-M program meaning that the Blackhawk's days are already numbered.
The PLA has access too S70c types sold pre-Embargo back In the 1980's these are not the same as the modern H60M type Currently entering and In US Service. Building of Air frames by china would demand a lot of work as the build would need new engines as well as a Transmission. and Does any one really think the PLA would or even could get there hands on 30 year old Avionics too mate in it? She may look like a Blackhawk but she will be a ChineseHawk. They can copy too a point but only so far and so long. Modern needs will demand there own work.
Another point is that Sikorsky is likely looking into the JMR-M program meaning that the Blackhawk's days are already numbered.
To admit I'm still more than sceptical in regard to this type.
I can't think that after years of operational use and esp. in mind of the latest other developments a Blackhawk-copy is still under development - if it ever was - ; at least I don't expect that type to look like a UH-60 since the Blackhwok - even if surely a formidable helicopter - it is simply dated ! A design with features similar to the NH-90 would fit much better current operational needs (IMO).
Deino
I can't think that after years of operational use and esp. in mind of the latest other developments a Blackhawk-copy is still under development - if it ever was - ; at least I don't expect that type to look like a UH-60 since the Blackhwok - even if surely a formidable helicopter - it is simply dated ! A design with features similar to the NH-90 would fit much better current operational needs (IMO).
Deino
Hmm but what is the advantages and disadvantages of a NH-90 configuration vs blackhawk (not comparing the aircraft directly)?
The only significant advantage I see is that an NH90 tricycle wheel style landing gear allows for placement of a rear ramp.
In any case, as Terran Empire said, we can expect any "sinohawk" to be rebuilt with modern technology, engines, avionics, materials, etc. I don't think any of us believe a chinese blackhawk will be a direct copy of the UH-60s the PLA fly in the same vein as the Tu-4 was a bolt for bolt, panel for panel copy of the B-29. Rather, a sinohawk will basically use the prove aerodynamics of the UH-60s they have, but that will be where the similarities end. Basically, the UH-60 is about to be J-11B-ized.
Considering the US will continue operating blackhawk/seahawk variants for years to come, and considering any new multirole utility helicopter is likely still a decade or more away from mass proliferation, I believe it makes sense for the chinese helicopter industry to test their mettle by mass producing a rebuilt version of a known quantity. It allows the PLA to get the new birds they need, it allows the industry to get experience mass producing and also some further experience in the design phase (although experience with Z-10, Z-19 and various Z-9 variants should already have provided much), and sets them up to develop an entirely new generation of helicopters in 10-20 years time, whether it be tilt rotors or push propellers, coaxial, etc.
The recent zhuhai concept models show that studies have probably been made in that direction, and that recent photo of a tiltrotor model in a wind tunnel shows that configuration has also been explored.
A "Z-20" modernized with chinese avionics, powered by a pair of WZ-16 turboshafts (I imagine WZ-9 would not be enough), and if mass produced, would probably be the best way to get a multi role helicopter out to the PLA. Militarizing Z-15 will be difficult and subject to delays, and designing a ground up new helicopter even more so.
---
PS, I should point out, that the single model we have of the so called Z-20 seem to show a five bladed main rotor, and the cabin appears to be stretched a little as well... so this bird may turn out to be some kind of "S-70C XL".
The only significant advantage I see is that an NH90 tricycle wheel style landing gear allows for placement of a rear ramp.
In any case, as Terran Empire said, we can expect any "sinohawk" to be rebuilt with modern technology, engines, avionics, materials, etc. I don't think any of us believe a chinese blackhawk will be a direct copy of the UH-60s the PLA fly in the same vein as the Tu-4 was a bolt for bolt, panel for panel copy of the B-29. Rather, a sinohawk will basically use the prove aerodynamics of the UH-60s they have, but that will be where the similarities end. Basically, the UH-60 is about to be J-11B-ized.
Considering the US will continue operating blackhawk/seahawk variants for years to come, and considering any new multirole utility helicopter is likely still a decade or more away from mass proliferation, I believe it makes sense for the chinese helicopter industry to test their mettle by mass producing a rebuilt version of a known quantity. It allows the PLA to get the new birds they need, it allows the industry to get experience mass producing and also some further experience in the design phase (although experience with Z-10, Z-19 and various Z-9 variants should already have provided much), and sets them up to develop an entirely new generation of helicopters in 10-20 years time, whether it be tilt rotors or push propellers, coaxial, etc.
The recent zhuhai concept models show that studies have probably been made in that direction, and that recent photo of a tiltrotor model in a wind tunnel shows that configuration has also been explored.
A "Z-20" modernized with chinese avionics, powered by a pair of WZ-16 turboshafts (I imagine WZ-9 would not be enough), and if mass produced, would probably be the best way to get a multi role helicopter out to the PLA. Militarizing Z-15 will be difficult and subject to delays, and designing a ground up new helicopter even more so.
---
PS, I should point out, that the single model we have of the so called Z-20 seem to show a five bladed main rotor, and the cabin appears to be stretched a little as well... so this bird may turn out to be some kind of "S-70C XL".
Last edited:
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
Bltizo there is one thing not sitting right with that. Why would it take longer to convert z15 from civil to military, then it would to develup this?Its like saying it would take longer to hot rod a chevy then to design build and test a new farari.
Depending on how badly the bits are and how much can be salvage... also depend on whether Pakistan would turn these pieces and parts to China, even if they are in friendly terms.
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
you will see the Titanic back at sea before that tail. The locals gave it the same treatment the Iraqi's did Sadam's statue. Best thing any one might have gotten was the concept and the photo
AssassinsMace
Lieutenant General
Well I was watching an interview with NBC network news anchor Brian Williams. He apparently struck up some friendship with the Navy Seals and they sent a piece of that helicopter to him as a present. Sounds like one probably couldn't get much information from what's left of the wreckage in the first place or it was all news media hype.
