WW II Historical Thread, Discussion, Pics, Videos

[Miragedriver]

Focke Wulf FW-190A8/N 'Gelb' 20 (Yellow 20) of 3./Jagdgeschwader 54 (JG 54) on the airfield at Immola in Finland.
2nd of July 1944.

The JU-87 Stukas flying overhead are possibly from 1./Schlachtgeschwader 3 (SG 3)

The unit was part of the Detachment Kuhlmey which participated in large battles of summer 1944, during the Finnish-Soviet Continuation War. When the Soviet Red Army launched its fourth strategic offensive on the 9th of June 1944
C. G. E. Mannerheim asked Germany for help. Among the help that arrived was a Luftwaffe unit that arrived to Finland on the 12th of June. The aircraft landed at the Immola Airfield on the 17th of June. The unit used the whole airfield from there on. They flew some 2,700 missions against the enemy and dropped 770 tonnes of bombs on the enemy. It destroyed over 150 Soviet aircraft, about 200 tanks, dozens of bridges and transport vessels. 23 of the pilots died and 24 were wounded in battle. The unit lost 41 of its aircraft to all reasons.
The detachment consisted of some 70 airworthy aircraft to support the 200 strong Finnish force, but its operational strength varied due to losses, additions and troop movements. The unclear structure is partly explained by the Luftwaffe replacement programs, where obsolete Junkers Ju 87 "Stuka" dive bombers were replaced by Focke-Wulf Fw 190 jabo's (fighter-bombers).


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[Miragedriver]

Five Panzerkampfwagen V 'Panther' (Nr. 234 'Gerda' in the center) arrive at Pallières, a farm near Juaye-Mondaye, at about 15:30 on 10 June 1944. The unit was sent to support Pz.Aufkl.-Lehr-Abt. 130. The Panthers belong to the 2. Kompanie of I./Panzer-Regiment 6 from 3.Panzer-Division. The I./Panzer-Regiment 6 had recently been attached to Panzer-Lehr-Regiment 130 as the I. Bataillon of that unit. It would become I./Pz.-Lehr-Rgt. 130 at a later date.

A short timeline of events leading up to this event:

4 June – I./Pz.Rgt. 6 is loaded on trains to move east to Russia

5 June – First train of I./Pz.Rgt. 6 arrived in Magdeburg, Germany (the last train was still in Paris). It may be possible that these last 5 Panthers were never loaded onto a transport train.

6 June – Trains carrying I./Pz.Rgt. 6 ordered back to France

10 June – 5 Panthers of 2. Kompanie I./Pz.Rgt. 6 arrive at Juaye-Mondaye

15 June – Main body of I./Pz.Rgt. 6 arrives in the sector

Details of the five Panthers:

Nr. 234 'Gerda' – Panther Ausf. A
Nr. 2?? 'Christel' – Panther Ausf. A turret on an Ausf. D hull
Nr. 2?? 'Helsa' – Panther Ausf. A
Nr. 2?? – Panther Ausf. A
Nr. 2?? – Panther Ausf. A

(Nb. the pic shows the muzzle of the 7.5 cm KwK 42 L/70 gun)

When the Allied invasion came, Panzer Lehr Division was one of the strongest divisions in the German Army, with 109 tanks, forty assault guns, and 612 half-track vehicles (double the normal Panzer div's component.)

The division was rushed to Normandy and thrown into the Battle of Caen, where it helped to halt Montgomery's advance, but at a terrible cost.

On the 25th of June it had only sixty-six tanks left, and by the 25th of July its combined tank/assault gun total stood at fifty.

Sent to oppose the American advance from St Lo, it was struck by 1,600 US. heavy and medium bombers on July 25th.

Two days later, the divisional commander reported Panzer Lehr as "finally annihilated".


Back to bottling my Grenache

 

[Jura The idiot]

...

Still, at least theoretically , those guns were battleship guns and they did have large muzzle velocity so I think it is fair to include them in the list

I think I found the winner the German SKC/28 11" (actually 283 mm bore) (on Lutzow, Adm. Scheer, Adm. Graf Spee) with 910 m/s and combat-proven ... and if you don't like it because these ships were (very heavy) cruisers: the SKC/34 11" on Scharnhorst and Gneisenau with 890 m/s

 

[thunderchief]

but why would they do it? (I assume the Tirpitz in Norway with opponents like the King George V or, alas, the Iowa ... as I said, the naval gun the Germans had fired 800 kg shells, coastal: 495 kg; from what I figured, the best chance for the Tirpitz would have been bad weather somewhere around the Arctic Circle and sneaking close, hitting fast)

Actually, at that time both sides had radars, so it was unlikely large ship like Tirpitz could sneak up on anyone . Best chance for Germans would be to fire few salvos from long range and disengage . You are right about spread and wear on barrel , but what could you do ? Even if Germans decided to use Tirpitz instead of keeping it in the port (fleet in being ) , it is very unlikely they would manage more then few sorties in a year .

 

[delft]

while increasing the maximal distance, it would cause problems for the plunging fire (as its distances would be that high that you could hardly direct it in real time

I read that the largest distance over which one battleship hit another one was HMS Warspite hitting Giulio Cesare at a range of approximately 24km in 1940. (

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)
Those shells will have taken a long time ....

 

[Jura The idiot]

Actually, at that time both sides had radars, so it was unlikely large ship like Tirpitz could sneak up on anyone . Best chance for Germans would be to fire few salvos from long range and disengage . You are right about spread and wear on barrel , but what could you do ? Even if Germans decided to use Tirpitz instead of keeping it in the port (fleet in being ) , it is very unlikely they would manage more then few sorties in a year .

where to start ... ? ... first of all, the Bismarck should've made it to Brest

 

[Jura The idiot]

I read that the largest distance over which one battleship hit another one was HMS Warspite hitting Giulio Cesare ...

yes if you meant both battleships moving ... but some people say the Massachusetts hit the Jean Bart, which was sitting in the Casablanca harbor, from even longer distance (November 8, 1942)

Those shells will have taken a long time ....

did you mean the time of flight of that Warspite's shell? I'm looking at table on p. 27 of Campbell's books and for 26000 yards I'm extrapolating to ... 41 seconds

by the way I found the video of the Guilio Cesare being hit, posted: https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/world-war-ii-historical-thread.t6728/page-15#post-266650

 

[Miragedriver]

Royal Marines from 45 (RM) Commando, 1st Commando Brigade on the look-out for snipers among the ruins in Osnabrück, Lower Saxony, Germany. 4th of April 1945.

l-r Commando F. Manders of Radway, Warwickshire (with the Bren Gun) and Corporal R.J.Angus of Bristol (with the Thompson MG).

War Diary HQ No 1 Cdo Bde 4th/5th April 1945;

4 April 1945
Hasbergen,
0300 - The Bde moved off in single file and approached Osnabrück from the NW. 3 Cdo led with Tac HQ and 45 RM Cdo following. 6 and 46 RM Cdo were in the rear. By dawn the Bde had infested the NW part of the town and by 1000 hrs Osnabruck was in our hands, only a few snipers remaining. Whilst the casualties of the Bde were low and those of Tac HQ nil, the enemy lost some 50 killed and wounded and 450 PW.

5 April 1945
Osnabrück - Weather cool and heavy showers. The Eastern suburbs were cleared by 46 RM Cdo.

Back to bottling my Grenache

 

[Miragedriver]

Crew members of Nº537 Soviet IS-2 tank of the 87th Guards Heavy Tank Regiment take a break in Breslau (now Wrocław in Poland) 27th April 1945.

Commander - Lt. B.I.Degtyareva (alt. Diegtiariew)
The musician is B.W. Kalyakin

There is another photo showing, what we believe, to be the same tank destroyed in a nearby street

("....the names of the crew were not in the lists of the dead, so it can be assumed that they were able to leave the destroyed tank.")

The IS ("Iosif Stalin") tank, with its 122 mm gun, was an unpleasant surprise for the Wehrmacht. Produced from October 1943 through to June 1945, with a total of 107 of the IS-1 vehicles and 3,483 of the IS-2 version manufactured.

Back to bottling my Grenache

 

[Lezt]

yes if you meant both battleships moving ... but some people say the Massachusetts hit the Jean Bart, which was sitting in the Casablanca harbor, from even longer distance (November 8, 1942)



did you mean the time of flight of that Warspite's shell? I'm looking at table on p. 27 of Campbell's books and for 26000 yards I'm extrapolating to ... 41 seconds

by the way I found the video of the Guilio Cesare being hit, posted: https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/world-war-ii-historical-thread.t6728/page-15#post-266650

Jura,

If we consider not just battleships hitting battleships...

Scharnhost hit Glorious at 26,465 yards

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Now... the unconfirmed hotly debated ones are....
Yamato hitting Gambier Bay and White Plains at beyond 30,000 yards. trajectory and after action report does match somewhat for the distance. i.e. the start of the battle was around 40000 yd away, yamato hits with the third salvo - according the the Japanese.

Nachi and Haguro repoprted hits at 23,700 meter to 27,800 m at Java Sea; De Ruyter and Huston both had duds in them from about those ranges.