World Economics Thread

[kliu0]

deleted

 

[AssassinsMace]

Well it's easy for you to spin it that way. But I'm going at what Western car executives said in the past about the Chinese car market and not the tangent you pursued so it's pretty much irrelevant about the state of Chinese car exports when that wasn't the subject. And you're wrong because Chinese love buying American cars and they go about equivalent to prices in the US. Domestic company cars sales only make a minority share of the overall Chinese car market. Another thing that Western car executives say is American car companies make more per car in China than in the US.

Sorry to tell you but the only thing GDP in China is continuing to do is grow. It hasn't been declining. What happened to all those critics when China's economy was overheating that said Beijing was diabolically underestimating growth. Well if offical figures say China is growing at 6.1% then the growth must be actually more because remeber China lied about growth underestimating it when it was overheated. So it should be actually at a heatlthy 9 to 12 per cent. What do you call that inconsistency? Denial and wishful thinking. Plus the propagandists say no one is buying exports from China. So shouldn't have it been declining long before anyone else? Gordan Chang too is waiting to take credit for predicting the collapse of China back when he said it was going to happen when China first joined the WTO. Is that sort of like the Republicans blaming the global financial crisis on Clinton and Bush had nothing to do with it?

 

[bladerunner]

It has always been suggested that the Chinese car market could supersede that of Americas in due course. It only happened earlier because of the financial crisis, with Americas putting of purchasing unnecessary big ticket items. So they MAY catch up when the consumer regains some confidence.

 

[AssassinsMace]

It has always been suggested that the Chinese car market could supersede that of Americas in due course. It only happened earlier because of the financial crisis, with Americas putting of purchasing unnecessary big ticket items. So they MAY catch up when the consumer regains some confidence.

Still doesn't explain why the Chinese car market has surpassed the US and Japan while it was predicted it would never be more than the European market.

Another thing that is accused of China is manipulating growth figures... The US does it too when the people who are in charge of keeping the record revealed that the US was actually in a recession a year before they officially announced it. So what are the critics complaining about China?

 

[pla101prc]

It has always been suggested that the Chinese car market could supersede that of Americas in due course. It only happened earlier because of the financial crisis, with Americas putting of purchasing unnecessary big ticket items. So they MAY catch up when the consumer regains some confidence.

consumers have already consumed too much in the US. they need savings, not wasting their money on cars. there shouldnt be any "confidence", if there is its just wishful thinking. if the US carmarket suddenly start to surge at a large pace again its not good news for America.

 

[AssassinsMace]

Yeah the Chinese can be like Americans and borrow and spend more than they save. I know American car companies want China to establish a car loan program so they can sell more cars. What does that say when Chinese buy more cars than anyone else when they don't have a system that will loan them money to buy one like in Western countries?

 

[pla101prc]

Yeah the Chinese can be like Americans and borrow and spend more than they save. I know American car companies want China to establish a car loan program so they can sell more cars. What does that say when Chinese buy more cars than anyone else when they don't have a system that will loan them money to buy one like in Western countries?

i dont think the loan program is gonna have a lot of market in China. Chinese ppl hate being in debt, and there is the reality that China's social security is way off (but turning into a welfare state like Europe isnt encouraged either).

 

[FriedRiceNSpice]

If the financial crisis continues to loom on, the GDP will continue to decline for China. That is dangerous waters, for no matter how many stimulus packages there are....people are unwilling to spend. Sure the stimulus package looks nice, but will it last.....? The financial crisis is still there.......its unavoidable....right now its former "staggering" growth of 8-9% was cushioning the blow....but as GDP declines each quarter.....China will eventually head into a technical recession. No country is immune to the effects of this global turmoil.....

You have NO IDEA whatsoever what you are talking about. GDP decline? Maybe you mean GDP growth decline, either that or you just completely don't have a clue what is going on in the world today. As for the financial crisis, yes China was affected but the concensus is that China has been weathering through relatively well. The newest data is also indicating that GDP growth is starting to pick up again, at least relative to the last quarter growth of 08. In the larger context of things and taken relative to the developing world as well as the G8 nations, China isn't doing half bad.

and the fact that Chinese cars are cheap and lacking in quality. But the fact remains, overseas countries still don't purchase Chinese cars.

The market determines the product. No one doubts that China could produce higher quality cars, but no one would buy them. Why would they invest in producing more expensive cars that will face tariffs/duties in an over-saturated market when they can dominate the Chinese domestic market with relative ease?

 

[bladerunner]

Yeah the Chinese can be like Americans and borrow and spend more than they save. I know American car companies want China to establish a car loan program so they can sell more cars. What does that say when Chinese buy more cars than anyone else when they don't have a system that will loan them money to buy one like in Western countries?

Admittedly to purchase properties or cars, a fair amount of cash has to be put up front, but the lack of finance companies doesn't mean people aren't borrowing privately.

I forgot which Politburo member was reputed to have said China must move up the value chain, as it doesn't always want to have to export100 million pair of shoes or other low tech consumer item to pay for one aeroplane. To do this one needs to be a innovator of new products. Great nations lead the way not follow
.

 

[AssassinsMace]

Admittedly to purchase properties or cars, a fair amount of cash has to be put up front, but the lack of finance companies doesn't mean people aren't borrowing privately.

I forgot which Politburo member was reputed to have said China must move up the value chain, as it doesn't always want to have to export100 million pair of shoes or other low tech consumer item to pay for one aeroplane. To do this one needs to be a innovator of new products. Great nations lead the way not follow
.

That's the difference. Westerners think China is at its optimum. The Chinese know it's only the beginning. Don't confuse confidence with arrogance as many in the military forums always assume when debating Chinese. The Chinese are pragmatic. We know there's a while to go. But look how underdeveloped China's progress has so many alarmed. Everything they say about China's incapability was said of the Japanese and the South Koreans. If a country like the US is so innovated and a leader, then why are Americans so dependent on overseas immigrants, especially from China, to fill the roles important to R&D? When the anti-communist Nixon made an alliance with China against the Soviet Union, there was a question if there was any concern that the US might be helping a future enemy. Nixon's people said there was nothing to worry about because the Chinese are going anywhere further than they are now. If China is so inept then why are you all so worried if China will never amount to anything?