Well I wasn't making excuses for breaking rules. I was pointing out that when people have a problem with someone else, they usually try to nitpick at anything to portray them negatively. Why would I be able to read about this in the US if it was just a domestic issue? Don't take this personally but I'm going to be blunt and rant a bit and it's not directed at you.
The reason why Hong Kongers won't paint Americans like they do Mainlanders because it has nothing to do with breaking the rules or good behavior in general. It's just like I read also how Hong Kongers are trying to convince the world to shun Mainland Chinese tourism and not sell them luxury goods because it cheapens their status value when Mainlanders buy them. This is a first where the idea is Chinese spending money on foreign goods is considered bad? If Westerners bring in large amounts of money, that's a good thing even if it squeezes out the poor. If Chinese don't buy foreign goods, people have a problem with that. Now with Chinese buying foreign goods there's a problem with that now? This is an example of how anyone can spin anything into anything. If it were anyone else but against Mainland Chinese, it would be called racism.
My family can be traced back to the US since the 1800s. I've had family members pass through Hong Kong to get to the US but my family doesn't identify with Hong Kong nor Taiwan. I'm Chinese and Americans have since I was a child reminded me I was Chinese. Hong Kongers and Taiwanese thinking that they can or have a separate identity, I've got news for you... Every Westerner sees Hong Kongers and Taiwanese as Chinese! Don't kid yourself in thinking you're not.
Here's a story about how Mainland China has affected the Hong Kong film industry.
Has Hong Kong cinema ever been nominated for an Oscar? If so not any notables therefore insignificant. Hong Kong before the takeover never had a reputation known for quality movies. Really can't blame Mainland Chinese for Hong Kong losing something they never had in the first place yet that's how it's being portrayed.
I had a conversation over dinner recently with a friend who's Caucasian. He brought up how his wife who's a Filipina is incensed at all the Filipino celebrities in the US identifying themselves as Polynesians and some even Latin but not Filipino. I told him about how a lot of Chinese from outside Mainland China do the same. I told him about how the stereotype of the rude Chinese tourist has been around for decades yet Mainland Chinese tourism is only a few years old. So where did the stereotype come from? People from Hong Kong and Taiwan and other places who had the money to be tourists before Mainland Chinese tourism was even thought possible. My friend was nodding and brought up his bad experience in Taiwan. Another example why the complaint about bad behaving Mainland Chinese tourists is not at all about having good behavior.
I'm under no delusions nor have romantic notions about the Chinese people. I'm just not crazy enough to think I'm someone else.
If any "Chinese" doesn't want to identify themselves as Chinese but as someone else, go ahead. Just don't do it at my expense. I can easily play that game and tell Westerners how what ever you identify yourself as are declaring Westerners as racists since the method of obtaining your separate identity comes via appealing to Western racism. You wouldn't do it if you didn't think it was so. And we know how Westerners don't like being called racist especially when it cost them through being misled with the wrong information.
I hope I don't portray the feeling of any hard feelings, but I will share my viewpoints here too as well. I appreciate your posts as well Assassins, and I acknowledge our differences in opinion hence why I will also split what I say, without ill intentions.
The reason why Hong Kongers won't paint Americans like they do Mainlanders because it has nothing to do with breaking the rules or good behavior in general. It's just like I read also how Hong Kongers are trying to convince the world to shun Mainland Chinese tourism and not sell them luxury goods because it cheapens their status value when Mainlanders buy them. This is a first where the idea is Chinese spending money on foreign goods is considered bad? If Westerners bring in large amounts of money, that's a good thing even if it squeezes out the poor. If Chinese don't buy foreign goods, people have a problem with that. Now with Chinese buying foreign goods there's a problem with that now? This is an example of how anyone can spin anything into anything. If it were anyone else but against Mainland Chinese, it would be called racism.
I certainly don't buy this paragraph because when it comes to regards to wealth, HK people are upset mainland Chinese buyers in properties cooked up the price(paid in cash sometimes) to become an inaccessible price for the HK 99%, but that was only the tip of the iceberg. Towards materialistic wealth it is the snobby attitudes that mainland Chinese tourists brought with them. One news event had it that a mainland Chinese couple attempted to cut in line at an emergency ward with the husband screaming "treat my wife first! I've got the money!" The staffs then refused any rule violation and the couple left angrily.
Clearing the shelves of our supplies of milk formula does anger the local population, but I think it's just regular legitimate functions of supply and demand, when mainland Chinese milk formula are dangerous, and I personally don't buy think there's much to be angry about.
There are plenty of other stories of snobby attitudes from the mainland Chinese tourists insulting HK and even claiming they are the ones "who gives us what we have", while the less wealthy ones would exploit the social welfare and mock the HK system. They would even go on to claim that HK can't survive if not for mainland crops and tax-exemption.
These are all ridiculous, disrespectful, and insulting claims because this disregards, disrespects, and insults our city, culture, people, heritage, ancestors, and pretty much everything that we stand for. It's equivalent to that comment made by an American tv host discrediting the Canadians.
[video=youtube;8X9tBjt0DUk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X9tBjt0DUk[/video]
All in all, we are upset with mainland China's lack of respect and classless behaviors. If you seriously think that there's a jealousy or sinister hatred by HK for China just because of luxury goods, then I think you have severely grossly mistaken.
I tried to verify your claim from that argument, but I find it weak and not representative or significant enough to cause a widespread mainstream attitude.
Hong Kongers and Taiwanese thinking that they can or have a separate identity, I've got news for you... Every Westerner sees Hong Kongers and Taiwanese as Chinese! Don't kid yourself in thinking you're not.
Completely disagree. If both HK and Taiwan create their own identities simply to appease or be seen different from the West, then such identity is fake and meaningless, and perhaps such pretentious behavior should be discarded, rendering your point somewhat valid. The
truth is however,
completely opposite of what you have said.
HK, Taiwan, Singapore, each develop their own culture, values, attitudes, mentality, etc. Each of them are different in their own ways, and surely we won't want to be called a Taiwanese as nor would a Taiwanese want to be called a HKer. It takes significant insecurity to feel great to be called something else one isn't really is, but that isn't what's happening in this case.
The matter of fact is, these identities that HK, Singapore, Taiwan developed was original with its own background and development.
In fact, this attitude and opinion is what Taiwanese and HK people have issues with. Mainland Chinese disregards and disrespects our identities and our rights to our own ways, and in the claims of "we are the same", to smudge away who we identify ourselves as. This, in other words, is coercive/forced assimilation, and it only backfires with further separation or marginalization.
For more information, read into the "Assimilation, Integration, Marginalization, Separation" matrix.
And why do HK and Taiwan
diverge (psychological term. rough definition in context here: want to be see themselves different, break away from the original) from mainland China? All the reasons that you can list as to why and how these 2 societies are different from China. Political, economic, cultural(religion and writing systems), and many much more. As long as one person or group sees this as enough to view themselves as different and they possess a separate identity, then that's all it matters. And separate identity doesnt mean the group necessarily have to split away from home and venture off; rather it could be like how Vancouverites and Toronto or Inuits see themselves; we are proud to wear our tag, but still consider ourselves Canadians.
Reference
Berger, J., & Heath, C. (2008 ). Who Drives Divergence? Identity Signaling, Outgroup Dissimilarity, and the Abandonment of Cultural Tastes. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology Vol. 95, No. 3,, 593–607.
Furthermore, the scholars argued that "people diverge to avoid signaling undesired identities."(Berger, 2008)
It doesn't matter if we all started from the same root: we all possess distinctiveness. Same root argument may be good for integration movement, but you and the other mainland Chinese way of discrediting our identity is surefire way to lead to separation.
The trouble that HK right now has would be equivalent to if Inuits starts showing up in Vancouver and started building igloos all over the lower mainland. That would disrupt our society, and then we will begin to dislike them even more. Still not a good thing to be stereotypical, but the Inuits would be the ones who spark off this conflict, by being disrespectful to the original/local indigenous culture.
Hong Kong film industry changes focus to mainland - latimes.com
Has Hong Kong cinema ever been nominated for an Oscar? If so not any notables therefore insignificant. Hong Kong before the takeover never had a reputation known for quality movies. Really can't blame Mainland Chinese for Hong Kong losing something they never had in the first place yet that's how it's being portrayed.
You do know that
The Departed was based on
Infernal Affairs right? Kung-fu, Shaolin Soccer is from HK? Hard Boiled is from HK? And Jackie Chan, Chow Yun Fat, Tony Leung, Anthony Wong, Stephen Chow are all HK actors right? Leslie Cheung, Anita Mui, Roman Tam, are from HK? And Teresa Teng is from Taiwan? And while HK film industry (in fact, the entire entertainment biz) is in decline, notable works do enter the Cannes festival, right? Again, you using the Oscars as the standard shows hypocrisy because now you're using a Western standard to evaluate HK's mass media and cultural achievements, and that is probably the worst, most disrespectful, and the last way you would use to define quality or to evaluate artwork and their producers. We all know how Hollywood is racist and steals works and remakes them and does plenty of that stuff, therefore comparing HK by this unfair standards is ridiculous. In fact, IA deserved its own, but Hollywood being Hollywood, they will ensure they do their racist little thing to ensure it's their own produce who gets it in the end. That said, I had given up on Hollywood for a long time ago, and the worst anyone can do is to bring that up in an argument. It's not even worth mentioning, and using this to feed your context of why HK hates China is incoherent because these are separate things. And also let's not forget art is subjective, so it's never quite the best tool to be used for comparing anything unless for people who knows what they're talking about, and neither you nor I are those people.
Attaching a news article and then presenting your argument like this, is very weak.
I told him about how a lot of Chinese from outside Mainland China do the same. I told him about how the stereotype of the rude Chinese tourist has been around for decades yet Mainland Chinese tourism is only a few years old. So where did the stereotype come from? People from Hong Kong and Taiwan and other places who had the money to be tourists before Mainland Chinese tourism was even thought possible. My friend was nodding and brought up his bad experience in Taiwan. Another example why the complaint about bad behaving Mainland Chinese tourists is not at all about having good behavior.
In other words you are shifting all the blame to HK and Taiwan. Your friend used one experience, and you both made conclusions based on insignificant and single events. And I won't call tourism as just a "few" years old. Isolating tourism as the sole operational definition is also troublesome because as long as one travels beyond, it doesn't matter whether it's for tourism or for other visa reasons; they still do what they do. And in HK and Taiwan there are plenty of stories.
And saying this is not about not having good behavior, once again, is fallacious, because completely irrelevant materials were presented that does not present supporting premises to your main argument.
the method of obtaining your separate identity comes via appealing to Western racism. You wouldn't do it if you didn't think it was so. And we know how Westerners don't like being called racist especially when it cost them through being misled with the wrong information.
Don't know how that line of logic stands, and I don't know how obtaining your own identity means appealing to Western racism. It makes no sense, and in fact, that's blaming or speculating that the West develops the institution of thinking called racism, and that's ridiculous. Classism has been around since the days of human, and certainly the identification of different species would exist in other species of the animal kingdom not exclusive to humans.
Conclusion:
If each individual has their own identity, then nothing prevents groups from having their own. It's only normal for a dominant for a major group to have subgroups, and within that it is all intergroup relations of how each works with one another. Attempting to discredit and disregard the group's identity is equivalent of saying an individual's identity is not important, and that is certainly disrespectful to the individual. Groups maintain their distinctiveness and have their reasons to defend their identity. Discrediting and ignoring their identity and attempt assimilation shows arrogance, lack of consideration of other groups, authoritative, and can create problems in the future. It is not to say that multiculturalism solves everything. Rather, it will take time for groups to work out their differences before finally achieving "harmony"
multiculturalism or assimilation, groups and their identities should still be respected.
