coolieno99
Junior Member
China does build their own version of the Flanker, the J-11B:
Source:
Last edited:
Why didn't China buy the MiG-29?
- Thread starter chicket9
- Start date
China does build their own version of the Flanker, the J-11B:
Source:
then what is a good plane they should build that they have not already. :coffee: :coffee:
coolien,
People seem to go around repeatedly pointing the "dark" J-11s as J-11Bs. They're not. The J-11B has a black nose like the J-10's and a bit fat on the buns. Also you will see it carrying Chinese missiles like PL-8, PL-11 or PL-12, not Russian types like R-73 or R-27.
The dark J-11s in my opinion, are J-11As. My theory is that these are made without Sukhoi supplied kits. Some of the parts are still supplied by the Russians but they're should be sourced directly from the manufacturers instead of going through Sukhoi, which can make the parts cheaper. But nonetheless, they offer nothing better or more than the standard grey J-11s whose airframe structural components are supplied from the kits. The J-11As are there to prove the worthiness of a completely Chinese made airframe before going to the next step, which is the J-11B.
People seem to go around repeatedly pointing the "dark" J-11s as J-11Bs. They're not. The J-11B has a black nose like the J-10's and a bit fat on the buns. Also you will see it carrying Chinese missiles like PL-8, PL-11 or PL-12, not Russian types like R-73 or R-27.
The dark J-11s in my opinion, are J-11As. My theory is that these are made without Sukhoi supplied kits. Some of the parts are still supplied by the Russians but they're should be sourced directly from the manufacturers instead of going through Sukhoi, which can make the parts cheaper. But nonetheless, they offer nothing better or more than the standard grey J-11s whose airframe structural components are supplied from the kits. The J-11As are there to prove the worthiness of a completely Chinese made airframe before going to the next step, which is the J-11B.
Ok zachjeli and ~~~~
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Gollevainen, Super Moderator
The original MiG-29 and Klimov RD-33 turbofan engines are cold-war era Soviet products. They knew they were technically behind the west and pushed their hardware to its limits for a competitive edge. The MiG-29's were intended to be fed with very high octane fuel and used as high performance point-defense fighter like the MiG-21. Extended service life was prolly not their primary goal. The RD-33 had service cycle of 350-500 hours before overhaul. The German AF had to de-tune their RD-33's to squeeze 700 hours before an overhaul.
In the post-cold war era Russia finds itself in competition against every other supplier. The initial batches of MiG-29's sent to India were prolly cold-war era grade and had reliability and service life issues. The Russians have learned since then that customers today look at long-term cost of ownership and demand better reliability and service life. The latest MiG-29 variants are likely to have much better overall service life on its airframe and engines.
i think they should by the Mig-35 too, becuase it has thrust vector.
Pointblank
Senior Member
Let me repeat what has been said already:
The Chinese have a pair of designs that are very similar to the MiG-29 and its variants; the FC-1 and J-10. It is completely a waste of resources to not buy your own domestic designs over a foreign design, especially if the designs are very similar or superior to foreign designs.
Chengdu J-10
Junior Member
Honestly why buy the Mig-35. What reasons of major benefits can the PLA recieve out of acquiring this aircraft. Not saying the aircraft is bad an all. But getting the aircraft just for the sake of the TVC engines I mean come on. The Russians are currently loosing China's interest in military equipment purchases with the figure decreasing in sales. Aircraft wise here people, Im talking about. Since Russia is in need for some cash to keep afloat their aviation industry they would be willing to sell the TVC engines by themselves to China with few hesitations. So need to get the whole pack while you can get the neccessary item by itself
Miragedriver
Brigadier
If I may give you the 3rd world perspective on this topic. It seams that very one is trying to save money and obtain the best air force for the monies available to purchase aircraft. I appears to me that the Chinese did not purchase/copy/license produce the Mig-29 for two reasons:
First they already had the J-10 in the works and they (the Chinese) have always wanted to be self-sufficient in this area.
Secondly the J-10 and J-11 use the same power plant (the J-10 had the gearbox on the bottom) and this serve in the same manner as the F-16 and the F-15.
The Mig-29 is not a bad aircraft, but it just seams that it requires as much maintenance as a larger more capable aircraft even though it is a smaller aircraft (little larger than an F-16). The engines smoke and the range is short.
First they already had the J-10 in the works and they (the Chinese) have always wanted to be self-sufficient in this area.
Secondly the J-10 and J-11 use the same power plant (the J-10 had the gearbox on the bottom) and this serve in the same manner as the F-16 and the F-15.
The Mig-29 is not a bad aircraft, but it just seams that it requires as much maintenance as a larger more capable aircraft even though it is a smaller aircraft (little larger than an F-16). The engines smoke and the range is short.
franco-russe
Senior Member
J-10 and J-11 do not have the same engine anymore, after J-11B switched to WS-10A Taihang after lot 00, the first 24 that went to 1 Ftr Div.
Tphuang recently described in China Air and Naval Power why the China decided to buy SU-27 and not MIG-29, basically for the reason you mention.
It should be remembered that the two planes were developed in Soviet times to very different requirements: MIG-29 was ordered by VVS, Frontal Aviation, while SU-27 was ordered by PVO for strategic air defence (but later adopted by VVS as escort fighter for the SU-24 (strike) air armies).
Tphuang recently described in China Air and Naval Power why the China decided to buy SU-27 and not MIG-29, basically for the reason you mention.
It should be remembered that the two planes were developed in Soviet times to very different requirements: MIG-29 was ordered by VVS, Frontal Aviation, while SU-27 was ordered by PVO for strategic air defence (but later adopted by VVS as escort fighter for the SU-24 (strike) air armies).