Where will the future threat for China come from?

NikeX

Banned Idiot
Truth of the matter is that China's investments in Africa have done far more good in 20 years than all the handwringing and patronizing of the west have done in the last 50 years, everything else is but mere peanuts by comparison.

Well according to this article the honeymoon for China in Africa is over. China has worn out its welcome on the African continent. The idea of China expanding into Africa as a future course is dead

"...Once feted as saviours in much of Africa, Chinese have come to be viewed with mixed feelings—especially in smaller countries where China’s weight is felt all the more. To blame, in part, are poor business practices imported alongside goods and services. Chinese construction work can be slapdash and buildings erected by mainland firms have on occasion fallen apart. A hospital in Luanda, the capital of Angola, was opened with great fanfare but cracks appeared in the walls within a few months and it soon closed. The Chinese-built road from Lusaka, Zambia’s capital, to Chirundu, 130km (81 miles) to the south-east, was quickly swept away by rains...."

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


---------- Post added at 12:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:17 PM ----------

Yet, 6 years after the article you linked about "African resentment", there are still plenty of Africans who believe that Chinese investment is enriching their lives.

Those "plenty of Africans" are mainly corrupt dictators who have been bought by Chinese money at the expense of the ordinary citizens

No, the "lazy" people I referred to are not the Africans, it's the Westerners. You think that asking employees to work 12-16 hours a day is "mistreating" them. No, that's a necessity of life. No one is going to give these people a cushy welfare check. If they want to rise above abject poverty, the best thing they can ask for is a job.

What I find strange is how China finds it necessary to copy from these so called "lazy westerners"

This is a foolish statement. The foundation of Trade is based on "I want something you have, and you want something I have". There is no charity involved in business.

Charities give out other people's money. Investors give out their own money. Charities *hope* for an improvement. Investors *demand* an improvement.

Chinese business practices in Africa and shoddy Chinese products are the cause of Africans turning away from China. You can blame noone but the Chinese for these developments against China in Africa
 

Mysterre

Banned Idiot
Well according to this article the honeymoon for China in Africa is over. China has worn out its welcome on the African continent. The idea of China expanding into Africa as a future course is dead
Leave it to this guy to find an article from an organization with an even larger warped bias vs China than he has, from which is then spun the most pompous grandiosity of a statement that I've seen on the internet in months, if not years. The sheer height of certainty and absolutism to which this statement and its utterer aspires, borders on the surreal.
 

solarz

Brigadier
Well according to this article the honeymoon for China in Africa is over. China has worn out its welcome on the African continent. The idea of China expanding into Africa as a future course is dead

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Considering that your article is from over a year ago, and that China is *still* going strong in Africa, you might want to rethink your statement. I'm sure you don't want to look foolish... right?

---------- Post added at 02:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:14 PM ----------

Here is the answer to your question: African students travel to China for the same reason African students traveled to Russia to receive higher education and that is the education is subsidized for the African students. In turn the Chinese, like the Russians, hope to make inroads into the country of origin of the African students when those students complete their education and return home. It is quite simple.

Now regarding the racism of the Chinese towards Black Africans and Blacks in general one need look no further than the many racial incidents that have occurred in China and continue to occur in China. For example, look at the situation of Lou Jing, a struggling singer who was featured on Shanghai's ""Go Oriental Angel"" program in August 2009. Lou Jing was born in Shanghai to a Chinese mother and African-American father. She is a Chinese citizen and speaks perfect Chinese. But her reception on the show has been anything but glamorous. Angry Chinese viewers have gone so far as to say she should “get out of China” and that she “never should have been born.

If you want to go into detail on the ugly reactions Chinese citizens have towards Blacks you can read this book. The author is a Black American who speaks fluent Mandarin and on behalf of his university visited China and conducted in depth studies on the attitudes of the Chinese towards darker skinned people. This heavily documented book will answer any questions you may have

Race and Racism in the Chinas: Chinese Racial ... - Google Books
books.google.com › ... › Ethnic Studies › African American StudiesRace and Racism in the Chinas: Chinese Racial Attitudes Toward Africans and African-Americans. Front Cover. M. Dujon Johnson ...

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


So I guess I cleared up your charges that I was posting "unsubstantiated claims" regarding racial issues in China and beyond.

LMAO!!! NikeX, thank you so much for proving everyone right: you just read what you want to believe in, and ignore the rest. I've never heard of Lou Jing before, but a quick google turned these up:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Netease: Finally, protest against racial discrimination?

Lou Jing: I think there wasn’t any racial discrimination, until he wrote the article and caused it.

Netease: You did not feel this kind of thing before the discussions on the internet?

Lou Jing: I think I didn’t feel it, I felt that all the media were all good to me, except the media who wrote that particular article. Until now I do not know which reporter wrote the article.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


It struck me, as we spoke, that her story proves that Shanghai at least, if not China as a whole, is a tolerant and non-racist place. "I have never felt different because of my skin until now," she said. "I get the odd person pointing in the street and saying I have dark skin, but not in a nasty way," she added.

I'm sure you can find all kinds of bigoted comments from anonymous Chinese posters regarding this girl, but any media outlet that tries to use those to portray how Chinese people act in real life is completely shameless. A little critical thinking is in order.
 

NikeX

Banned Idiot
NikeX, I see you are comparing China with the colonial Europeans. The biggest difference is, the Europeans went into Africa with force, they killed bunch of people there, took over the local government, enslaved everyone and then force resources extraction with force. While they leaves absolutely nothing behind that is any good.

I agree with your assessment

As for China, yes I have no doubt China wants resource there, and I don't even think Chinese themselves will deny this. BUT they way they are doing it is vastly different than the old Europeans, China does not send it is army, China does not colonize the land, and enslave the people and force them to extract resources.

From what is being said about the Chinese in Africa, I believe that is can be argued that the Africans see China as just another type of colonist with the same mission as the Europeans. Maybe the Chinese have learned from the Europeans and are just a little slicker in running their program

Instead you should know that all Chinese company signs contracts with the local government, a contract that both sides understand are satisfied with. That means yes, China gets the natural resources, but that also means Africa does not get empty hands as well, they do often get merchandise in return, and if you want to call them "cheap Chinese crap" than that is your provocative, but those cheap Chinese crap has indeed raise the standard of living for many people. Also in those contracts, China will help Africa to build much need infrastructure such as roads, hospital, school etc on a massive scale... I really don't see the colonize did hits when they were in Africa.

The accusation is that China is dumping its cheap and many times poorly made products on the Africans in order to keep Chinese workers busy in China. Local African markets cannot compete and are as a result are being driven out of business. You will find this story of a Black African doing his business in Shanghai enlightening. He does not seem to be "lazy" as many Chinese have labeled Africans

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!



And yes it is true, that during this process, there are stories that Chinese company didn't treat the African's fairly, but yet, if you want to look at stories, than I can find hundreds of story of how US treating Blacks/Latinos/Asians unfairly in California. Anecdote makes up good story with emotional appeal, but it does NOT make up statistic. So if you want to clam that Chinese are using the old European style to colonize Africa, or Chinese is discriminating and abusing African on a mass organize scale, please back up your sources, with study, statistic, evidence etc.... otherwise, talk is cheap.

Americans have tried to address the shameful racial behavior of the past. Black/Latino/Asian Americans have excelled in the business and technical world as a result. Don't forget the current president of the United States is a Black man. Need I say more?
 

stardave

Junior Member
I agree with your assessment



From what is being said about the Chinese in Africa, I believe that is can be argued that the Africans see China as just another type of colonist with the same mission as the Europeans. Maybe the Chinese have learned from the Europeans and are just a little slicker in running their program


The accusation is that China is dumping its cheap and many times poorly made products on the Africans in order to keep Chinese workers busy in China. Local African markets cannot compete and are as a result are being driven out of business. You will find this story of a Black African doing his business in Shanghai enlightening. He does not seem to be "lazy" as many Chinese have labeled Africans

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!




Americans have tried to address the shameful racial behavior of the past. Black/Latino/Asian Americans have excelled in the business and technical world as a result. Don't forget the current president of the United States is a Black man. Need I say more?




Well, you mean from your own conclusion that China is doing evil in Africa, and finding article that support your view? The matter of fact is China didn't send in soldiers like the Europeans did, China didn't subjectate the local tribes like the Westerns did. China signs contract, contracts that was not signed under duress, Chinese government/contractors didn't bring a gun to the African's head and force them to print their name. They signed contract that both side agreed upon.

I don't know if you understood, but this is part of business law 101. So came again? how do you compare signing a contract as equal to of European colonize's policy of sending soldiers in to kill, privilege, rape, and loot the way the Europeans colonizer did things?
--------------

Again... why are you blaming China for saying Africans are lazy? Correct me if I am wrong, the lazy African stereotype was originally from the west, isn't it not? While I have no doubt that some Chinese do not like African's worker's work ethics, but they still value building relationships with the local African people, if all Chinese in Africa sees African as lazy no good @#@% then they can't survive in Africa, not with that kind of condescending attitude like that towards the local, which out number you 1000000 to 1. And you should know by now BBC, the Economics, FOX news, ABC, NBC are NOT known for it is unbiased reporting when it comes to China. This is another example of you finding sources that fits your point of the view, while disregarding the ones that does not fit you.

--------------
Yes I agree American have tried to address it, but guess what? The matter of fact from STATISTIC!!! that Blacks in Americas are the poorest race, they are the most unemployed, underemployed, the most likely to get lock up in jail, the most likely to get murdered in their life, have the lowest level of education, have the shortest life expectancy than Whites. And guess what? Since Obama became president, none of the statistic have improved for the blacks. And if you read the news, Obama is not exactly Mr. Popular right now. He have not improve the economy, he have not reformed the Banks, he have not... I am not going to go into this in detail because it will be even more off topic.

---------------
What I don't understand is, if you hate China that much, and at the same time, not even willing to accept the other side point of view at all, why are you even on this forum? If all you want to do is confirm or reinforce your personal believes, this place is certainly not for you to hang out around.

And thanks a lot for derailing my topic, I just want to have some hypothetical discussion to China's future, while you have to turn it into a topic of China is destroying Africa. Jesus Christ...
 
Last edited:

NikeX

Banned Idiot
And thanks a lot for derailing my topic, I just want to have some hypothetical discussion to China's future, while you have to turn it into a topic of China is destroying Africa. Jesus Christ...

I never meant to "derail" your topic. My responses have been to the idea posted earlier that China should expand into Africa. I just wanted to address that point. Regarding your topic I will not respond further.
 

bladerunner

Banned Idiot
--------------

And you should know by now BBC, the Economics, FOX news, ABC, NBC are NOT known for it is unbiased reporting when it comes to China.
.

Perhaps a little off Topic but considering you included the "Economist" in your list of publications that were biased against China,
is the following piece from the latest edition, a figment of the writers imagination?

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Perils of motherhood

WHEN Guo Meilian found she was pregnant again, she first thought to have an abortion. Ms Guo, then 32 and living in the eastern province of Zhejiang, should not be pregnant. After she had given birth to two daughters, she had a mandatory sterilisation in 1991, organised by the local family-planning committee.

So the new pregnancy was a puzzle. But Ms Guo’s biggest concern was the crippling fine an extra child would incur. Before she went in for the abortion however, friends persuaded her to have an ultrasound taken. She learned then that she was carrying twin boys. “My family knew we had to bring them into the world at all costs,” she says. It was to be a hard path.

Breaching China’s one-child policy carries a severe financial penalty. Parents in Shanghai pay between three and six times the city’s average yearly income in what are called “social-maintenance fees” (SMF) for extra children. He Yafu, an independent scholar and critic of the one-child policy, estimates the government has collected over 2 trillion yuan ($314 billion) in SMFs since 1980.

Mr He’s calculations—which are based on the number of “unplanned” births in China (some 200m) each carrying a 10,000 yuan fine—are conservative. A husband and wife in Shanghai will each pay 110,000 yuan, based on the city’s per-capita annual disposable income, for a second child. For a third child, the parent’s total is 435,000 yuan. Recently, a couple in the affluent eastern province of Zhejiang made headlines when the birth of a daughter cost them 1.3m yuan ($205,000) in SMF.

Failure to pay the fine carries grave repercussions. The second “black child” cannot get a household registration, a hukou, which carries with it such basic rights as education. But backlash can be more severe. When Ms Guo’s brother refused to pay his SMF, family-planning officials destroyed his house, pulling down the walls and wrecking the furniture.

This week the one-child policy’s darkest side was exposed. Pictures of Feng Jianmei, a 27-year-old from the central province of Shaanxi, prostrate on a clinic bed next to her dead seven-month-old fetus (graphic, horrible), are causing outrage in local media. Ms Feng, who has a five-year-old daughter, was forced to have an abortion when her family could not produce 40,000 yuan ($6,280) for the SMF. On the evening of June 14th, the provincial government apologised to Ms Feng. The family-planning officials involved are to lose their jobs.

“This is pure murder,” says Huangsong999 on Sina Weibo, China’s version of Twitter, where hundreds of thousands of microbloggers are expressing their disgust. “Are [family-planning officials] human? How could they do this without showing any humanity? China was founded over 60 years ago, but the country is full of monsters.” Authorities have since deleted the post.

Yang Zhizhu, one of a handful of individuals who are criticising the SMF publicly, calls it China’s “terror fee”. Mr Yang and his wife originally refused to pay the SMF for their second daughter. The transgression cost Mr Yang his job as a law professor. In April this year, a fee of 240,300 yuan was taken from his wife’s account. In protest Mr Yang launched an online “begging” campaign. “It’s more like performance art to educate people about the ruthlessness of family planning”, Mr Yang explains. “I was robbed by bandits.”

The government has created plenty of incentives for couples to have only a single child. The best schools prefer children carrying a “glorious certificate for one-child parents”. Such parents can be granted a special annual allowance as well as a bonus towards their retirement assistance.

But it is difficult to enforce a policy that is so tangled with loopholes. (Considering China’s perilously low birth rate and its rapidly ageing population, strict enforcement would perhaps be even worse.) In 2007 a family-planning official estimated that the one-child policy applied to less than 40% of population. Couples living in the countryside can typically have a second child if the first is a girl. Many other rules seem almost arbitrary. In Shanghai, if either man or wife works in fishing and has been at sea for five years, a couple may have a second child without facing punishment.

Others turn to more imaginative means to bypass the SMF. Dong Feng, a 33-year-old from Nanjing, is offering to be a “fake husband” for a couple willing to divorce in order to have a second child. Mr Dong is exploiting another loophole: if one of two newlyweds has no children while the other has a child from a previous marriage, a second child, a half-sibling, is allowed. Having no children of his own, Mr Dong is in a position to help a woman who has already become a mother once. He is charging 20,000 yuan for his services—ie less than most SMFs—which will involve registering a marriage, applying for fertility and birth certificates and, finally, securing a hukou for the child. Mutual non-interference in each other’s personal lives is his only non-cash requirement.

For Ms Guo and her twin boys, it was her personal connections, or guanxi, that helped. At first she was asked to pay 20,000 yuan, a 50% discount in light of her failed sterilisation. She appealed to authorities through her brother, who went to school with the town chief, and got a further discount. In the end she paid only a nominal 1,000 yuan.

“But I still feel indignant”, she says. “Bringing up children is already a huge burden and the government provides no assistance—instead they take from parents. In my eyes they are thieves.”

This is another example of you finding sources that fits your point of the view, while disregarding the ones that does not fit you.

Actually, members supporting China do exactly the same thing.
 

Vini_Vidi_Vici

Junior Member
China is too big for anyone else to threaten its stability. Just like the USSR, only trouble from within can weaken and dismantle it.
 
Top