What the Heck?! Thread (Closed)

[solarz]

I have a question for all the geeks (like myself) that watch Game of thrones. The opening credits of the show depicts a three-dimensional map of the series' fictional world, projected onto a concave earth.

One of the things that strikes me about this world is the peculiar seasonal patterns, with years-long summers and winters. Now, I may be projecting a more science-fiction slant on something that is more likely of pure magic or some other supernatural cause, but the intro inparticular seems to have the world placed in what could be described as a Dyson Sphere/Shell.

You don't need a dyson sphere to explain long summers and winters, a highly elliptical orbit would suffice.

On Earth, a year is defined as one revolution of the Earth around the Sun. However, we have no idea what the definition of a year is in the world of Westeros. It could simply be defined as a number of days. So one revolution of that planet could conceivably take hundreds of Earth years, and the long winters are periods where the planet is far away from its sun.

 

[AssassinsMace]

Well they don't say perpetual night. It could be simply perpetual over cast clouds where the temperature drops and feels like winter all the time. Then the second season had the red comet. A Dyson sphere would have to be as large as around Earth's orbit because scientifically the conditions for complex life cannot exist outside that window. So if there's a red comet flying around inside a Dyson sphere where it's a rare event in the Game of Thrones world, they would see it once a year at least. Roose Bolton told Ramsey that the North was the biggest country in the Seven Kingdoms. From where they were standing he mentioned how far in each direction how big the North was. I don't remember him saying any direction was more than a thousand miles. I think the biggest direction was 400 miles. Here's a Google-type map of the Game of Thrones world.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

The Game of Thrones world seems like a smaller planet than the Earth certainly not as big as a Dyson sphere needs to be. Unless of course there's more to the world beyond Westeros and Essos.

 

[solarz]

Well they don't say perpetual night. It could be simply perpetual over cast clouds where the temperature drops and feels like winter all the time. Then the second season had the red comet. A Dyson sphere would have to be as large as around Earth's orbit because scientifically the conditions for complex life cannot exist outside that window. So if there's a red comet flying around inside a Dyson sphere where it's a rare event in the Game of Thrones world, they would see it once a year at least. Roose Bolton told Ramsey that the North was the biggest country in the Seven Kingdoms. From where they were standing he mentioned how far in each direction how big the North was. I don't remember him saying any direction was more than a thousand miles. I think the biggest direction was 400 miles. Here's a Google-type map of the Game of Thrones world.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

The Game of Thrones world seems like a smaller planet than the Earth certainly not as big as a Dyson sphere needs to be. Unless of course there's more to the world beyond Westeros and Essos.

A long night can be explained by the orbit and axis tilt of the planet, much like our own artic nights.

 

[TerraN_EmpirE]

First because your Screen IE TV is Flat con caved or Convexed is frankly difficult to actually determine.
Second A Dyson Sphere would be titanically massively hugely Gigantic. the Concept of a Dyson Sphere is a massive shell has been constructed around a star in order to secure the maximum amount of Sunlight possible and supply a large living space for the population of the Sphere builders. the means that the Shell must be placed at a Sufficient distance to allow the shell not to be damaged by the captured star and in order to capture enough energy and light to sustain the inhabitants well not cooking them. This means a set "Goldilocks Zone" Not to hot not too cold. If we assume that the Inhabitants of the GOT universe are Humans as we understand them then That means the Sphere must be greater that equal to the scale of Earths Orbit or 1 AU or the rough Diameter of space between Earth and the Sun which is Roughly 93 million miles ( Earth's orbit is not a perfect circle infact it flares out dramatically but Lets roll with this for sanity) this means that a Westeros Dyson Sphere would have a minimum internal Circumference of about 292.2 Million Miles with an Area of about 6.8 Billion miles. ( all numbers here are rounded off )
That would be a massive sphere. The materials to construct such would demand multiple Solar systems to be strip mined for raw materials. You could of course simplify and Say It's not a sphere but a Ring like the HALO rings which would reduce your scale but loose your sphere. Unless the Humans in GOT are literal Giants the distances and materials make it unlikely to be a conventional Dyson sphere. Another reason to rule out living in the Shell is that In all likely Living in a Dyson Sphere would mean no summers or winters just a perpetual day.
The more likely answer for the odd climate of GOT is that the Planet's operating in a slightly different Angle of tilt or orbit. or some other climatic factor like increased volcanism. The Earths Climate has changed multiple times over the last few Millennia from very warm periods to very cold.slight variations of any number of factors could account for these from increased solar activity to tidal changes.

 

[solarz]

The more likely answer for the odd climate of GOT is that the Planet's operating in a slightly different Angle of tilt or orbit. or some other climatic factor like increased volcanism. The Earths Climate has changed multiple times over the last few Millennia from very warm periods to very cold.slight variations of any number of factors could account for these from increased solar activity to tidal changes.

Agreed. The long winter/summer cycles could also be a meteorological phenomenon, much like what causes ice ages and global warming (the natural kind) on Earth, except compressed into decades instead of millenia.

 

[Miragedriver]

You don't need a dyson sphere to explain long summers and winters, a highly elliptical orbit would suffice.

On Earth, a year is defined as one revolution of the Earth around the Sun. However, we have no idea what the definition of a year is in the world of Westeros. It could simply be defined as a number of days. So one revolution of that planet could conceivably take hundreds of Earth years, and the long winters are periods where the planet is far away from its sun.

Yes, however how does that explain the view depicting the concave map in the opening credits of the series?

 

[Miragedriver]

Agreed. The long winter/summer cycles could also be a meteorological phenomenon, much like what causes ice ages and global warming (the natural kind) on Earth, except compressed into decades instead of millenia.

Yes, we can all agree that a very elliptical orbit will produce a combination of short and long temperature externs. However, it does not explain two things: first is that the seasons are not consistent and either summer or winter will vary years in duration; second, how does that explain the view depicting the concave map in the opening credits of the series?

 

[solarz]

Yes, we can all agree that a very elliptical orbit will produce a combination of short and long temperature externs. However, it does not explain two things: first is that the seasons are not consistent and either summer or winter will vary years in duration; second, how does that explain the view depicting the concave map in the opening credits of the series?

The concave map came from artistic liberties taken only for the title sequence:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Nothing in the book or the TV series implies a concave world. For example, you would not have a sunset in a concave world.

As for the seasons being inconsistent, that can easily be explained by cyclical mini ice ages. On Earth, ice ages are caused by fluctuations in the amount of solar radiation hitting the Earth. Perhaps the world of ASOIAF orbits a star that has these cyclical fluctuations.

 

[AssassinsMace]

George RR Martin has confirmed one fan theory is correct. I read the supposed fan theory. The last season partly confirmed this bit here. According to it when winter comes there's a reason. It's not a natural random event. The White Walkers only come out because men have violated an ancient treaty that they're suppose to stay on their side of the Wall. Men continually violate that treaty. So a scientific allegory when winter comes it's like global warming. It's man-made.

 

[ahho]

Disappointing behavior in China, but not surprising in the least by a civilization that thinks it's better than everyone else. Maybe the Red Emperor should address some social ills at home?

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Not to justify anything racist. I think a lot of Africans that go to China are usually trying to do business by doing import and exporting stationary, toys and equipment. Most of the stores that sell them goods are usually small shops that either act as a middleman (since they have contact with factories) or they buy it bulk and sell to African businessman with a markup. In business there always be scammers or people that are desperate (due to failing business) and would not pay the bill. In China, when you deal with customer that have build relations, the would sell the good to you and the buyer can pay later. If a Chinese buyer, (for example Mr. Wong) didn't pay for the goods after he got it, the seller would say: "that @#$@# Mr. Chan @!@#'ing scammed me. When a African scam the seller. the seller would generalize and say: "That @#$@#$'ing black man scammed me" This would have a huge impact on the locals mentality on Africans. The reason being is that, they can't pronounce foreigner's name and when they get mad, they would swear and tell stories of (eg. Black Men, White Men, Japanese, etc) scamming them. If it was Mr Wong (the example I used) everyone would remember Mr Wong was a bad guy, but not a specific race was a bad guy.

The other problem, that was nicely stated in the article, was that Chinese has been dealing with people of the same race or look a like for a long time and stories of foreigner scamming us has been spread for centuries.,