Currently, the Ohio SSGN's have no replacement. It was a gift that nuclear arms treaty made them available for conversion. Overall, their value is still under review. IS a dedicated cruise weapon platform needed when there are several ships/subs that can be armed with cruise missiles? That is the question USN brass is trying to figure out.
What is the detail of USN's 313 ship plan?
- Thread starter szbd
- Start date
Currently, the Ohio SSGN's have no replacement. It was a gift that nuclear arms treaty made them available for conversion. Overall, their value is still under review. IS a dedicated cruise weapon platform needed when there are several ships/subs that can be armed with cruise missiles? That is the question USN brass is trying to figure out.
bigstick61
Junior Member
I don't think they are particularly valuable from that standpoint, especially considering that before they were commissioned there were already not enough Tomahawks to go around. However, that is still alot of space which can be utilized, making them a good vessel to utilize for special operations, covert evacuations and resupply (like US subs in the Philippines in WWII), and other purposes. Having a few subs like that is useful, in my opinion. If they were to be principally utilized for missile launches, though, I would say their value is diminished.
Pointblank
Senior Member
The reason why the first 4 Ohio's also became available is that these subs could not accept the new Trident D-5 missile, which is wider than the current hatches on the first 4 Ohio's. Since they were slated to be retired, it made sense to convert them to other duties other than an extra-large attack sub.
Skywatcher
Captain
SSGN Ohios would be very good for sneaking up and launching a lot of cruise missiles at someone who wouldn't expect it. Good for a scenario involving the DPRK, I imagine.
Re: 30-Year shipbuilding plan
Reviving a really old thread for a current topic wich I came across today.
The DoD send it's latest 30year shipbuilding plan to Congress. It also involves, for the first time, an aircraft plan for the navy and air force.
11 carriers, no other fancy high end combat vessels, but more LCS and JHSV.
A design study starts in a decade for a follow on SSBN. 33 amphib ships as the min to support the USMC.
Less fighters, a lot more drones, tankers and bombers in a decade to keep the numbers at the same level.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DoD 30-Year Ship Plan Needs $16B a Year; Aviation Plan Puts Off New Bomber
By christopher p. cavas and JOHN T. BENNETT
Published: 2 Feb 2010 17:02
The U.S. Navy's new 30-year fleet plan demotes the previous goal of a 313-ship fleet to a mere "point of departure" for developing a new fleet. The service estimates it can buy the ships in the plan for an average of "no more than $15.9 billion per year" in 2010 dollars.
[...]
In the updated plan's near-term period, the Navy plans to "significantly ramp up" production of ships such as the Littoral Combat Ship (LCS) and the Joint High Speed Vessel (JHSV) to "support persistent presence, maritime security, irregular warfare, joint sealift, humanitarian assistance, disaster relief, and partnership building missions." A total of 66 LCS ships is now forecast to be bought over the 30-year period, including 17 replacements for ships reaching the end of their service life.
Highlights of the plan include:
■ Increasing the number of Navy-operated Joint High Speed Vessel ships to 23 and expanding their mission range.
■ Canceling plans to build two new joint command ships and instead extend the two 1970s-era ships through 2029.
■ Standardizing the combat logistics force to two basic auxiliary ship types: T-AKE dry cargo ammunition ships and new T-AO(X) double-hulled fleet oilers.
■ Replacing the Maritime Prepositioning Force (Future) (MPFF) squadron to support high-end, forcible-entry operations with three enhanced Maritime Prepositioning Squadrons, each consisting of a T-AKE, a new Mobile Landing Platform (MLP) and a Large Medium-Speed Roll-on/Roll-off (LMSR) ship transferred from the Army.
The plan, as expected, holds the number of aircraft carriers to 11 ships until dropping to 10 after 2040; reaffirms the 2008 decision to end the DDG 1000 destroyer program at three ships and last fall's choice to select a single design for the Littoral Combat Ship program; confirms the plan to continue development of a new Advanced Missile Defense Radar (AMDR) to install on DDG 51-class destroyers (scheduled with the ships to be ordered in 2016); and maintain an amphibious landing force of "approximately 33 ships."
[...]
The new plan does not plan for a replacement for the four SSGN cruise-missile and special-mission submarines converted from the ballistic missile mission. A 12-ship replacement program for the Ohio-class ballistic missile submarines is to be funded from 2019 through 2033, but the requirement for the new sub is expected in the forthcoming Nuclear Posture Review expected to be sent to Congress in early March.
The Navy acknowledges that the 33-ship amphibious fleet "represents the limit of acceptable risk" in meeting the requirement to deliver two Marine Expeditionary Brigades in a forcible entry operation, despite the Corps' desire for 38 ships.
And while the total number of LCS ships to be bought jumps to 66, the rate of construction significantly drops. Gone are previous years where six or five ships were to be purchased; instead, the new plan buys four per year from 2013 to 2015, three a year from 2016 to 2019, and two or one per year thereafter through 2040.
[...]
"Although the department is spending considerable sums on modernizing legacy air mobility and long range strike platforms, there will be no new procurement of aircraft in these categories during FY 2011-2020," the plan says. "The picture will change in the 2020s, when the priority will likely shift to buying long-range strike and strategic lift aircraft."
Gates told the Senate Armed Services Committee on Feb. 2 that the 2011 budget calls for spending $1.9 billion between 2011 and 2015 to develop a next-generation bomber.
The aviation plan projects the military's manned fighter inventory will decline "by 10 percent" between 2010 and 2020. Over the same span, the plan forecasts the number of multirole unmanned aircraft in the fleet "will quadruple."
The plan envisions a combined fighter and attack aircraft fleet composed of 3,264 planes in 2011. The fleet would shrink to 2,929 by 2020, with a low point of 2,883 in 2018.
The multi-role unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) fleet would grow from 72 in 2011 to 223 in 2015. That growth would continue, with a 476-plane inventory envisioned for 2020.
For intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (ISR) aircraft, the plan projects the 580-plane fleet of 2011 will shrink to 527 aircraft in 2015, before growing to 542 airframes by the end of the span.
The military's airlift inventory is described as "robust and stable." The plan forecasts remarkable stability for strategic lift aircraft, starting at 313 jets in fiscal 2011, then holding steady at 312 through fiscal 2020. Tanker aircraft and intra-theater air lifter inventories also are projected to remain relatively the same. The 549-ship fleet of tankers in 2011 is expected to dip to a low of 531 in 2018 and 2019 before growing to 538 flying gas stations in 2020. The 2011 inventory of 536 intra-theater cargo planes drops to a low of 509 planes in 2016, rising to 538 in 2020.
[...]
William Matthews contributed to this report.
Reviving a really old thread for a current topic wich I came across today.
The DoD send it's latest 30year shipbuilding plan to Congress. It also involves, for the first time, an aircraft plan for the navy and air force.
11 carriers, no other fancy high end combat vessels, but more LCS and JHSV.
A design study starts in a decade for a follow on SSBN. 33 amphib ships as the min to support the USMC.
Less fighters, a lot more drones, tankers and bombers in a decade to keep the numbers at the same level.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DoD 30-Year Ship Plan Needs $16B a Year; Aviation Plan Puts Off New Bomber
By christopher p. cavas and JOHN T. BENNETT
Published: 2 Feb 2010 17:02
The U.S. Navy's new 30-year fleet plan demotes the previous goal of a 313-ship fleet to a mere "point of departure" for developing a new fleet. The service estimates it can buy the ships in the plan for an average of "no more than $15.9 billion per year" in 2010 dollars.
[...]
In the updated plan's near-term period, the Navy plans to "significantly ramp up" production of ships such as the Littoral Combat Ship (LCS) and the Joint High Speed Vessel (JHSV) to "support persistent presence, maritime security, irregular warfare, joint sealift, humanitarian assistance, disaster relief, and partnership building missions." A total of 66 LCS ships is now forecast to be bought over the 30-year period, including 17 replacements for ships reaching the end of their service life.
Highlights of the plan include:
■ Increasing the number of Navy-operated Joint High Speed Vessel ships to 23 and expanding their mission range.
■ Canceling plans to build two new joint command ships and instead extend the two 1970s-era ships through 2029.
■ Standardizing the combat logistics force to two basic auxiliary ship types: T-AKE dry cargo ammunition ships and new T-AO(X) double-hulled fleet oilers.
■ Replacing the Maritime Prepositioning Force (Future) (MPFF) squadron to support high-end, forcible-entry operations with three enhanced Maritime Prepositioning Squadrons, each consisting of a T-AKE, a new Mobile Landing Platform (MLP) and a Large Medium-Speed Roll-on/Roll-off (LMSR) ship transferred from the Army.
The plan, as expected, holds the number of aircraft carriers to 11 ships until dropping to 10 after 2040; reaffirms the 2008 decision to end the DDG 1000 destroyer program at three ships and last fall's choice to select a single design for the Littoral Combat Ship program; confirms the plan to continue development of a new Advanced Missile Defense Radar (AMDR) to install on DDG 51-class destroyers (scheduled with the ships to be ordered in 2016); and maintain an amphibious landing force of "approximately 33 ships."
[...]
The new plan does not plan for a replacement for the four SSGN cruise-missile and special-mission submarines converted from the ballistic missile mission. A 12-ship replacement program for the Ohio-class ballistic missile submarines is to be funded from 2019 through 2033, but the requirement for the new sub is expected in the forthcoming Nuclear Posture Review expected to be sent to Congress in early March.
The Navy acknowledges that the 33-ship amphibious fleet "represents the limit of acceptable risk" in meeting the requirement to deliver two Marine Expeditionary Brigades in a forcible entry operation, despite the Corps' desire for 38 ships.
And while the total number of LCS ships to be bought jumps to 66, the rate of construction significantly drops. Gone are previous years where six or five ships were to be purchased; instead, the new plan buys four per year from 2013 to 2015, three a year from 2016 to 2019, and two or one per year thereafter through 2040.
[...]
"Although the department is spending considerable sums on modernizing legacy air mobility and long range strike platforms, there will be no new procurement of aircraft in these categories during FY 2011-2020," the plan says. "The picture will change in the 2020s, when the priority will likely shift to buying long-range strike and strategic lift aircraft."
Gates told the Senate Armed Services Committee on Feb. 2 that the 2011 budget calls for spending $1.9 billion between 2011 and 2015 to develop a next-generation bomber.
The aviation plan projects the military's manned fighter inventory will decline "by 10 percent" between 2010 and 2020. Over the same span, the plan forecasts the number of multirole unmanned aircraft in the fleet "will quadruple."
The plan envisions a combined fighter and attack aircraft fleet composed of 3,264 planes in 2011. The fleet would shrink to 2,929 by 2020, with a low point of 2,883 in 2018.
The multi-role unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) fleet would grow from 72 in 2011 to 223 in 2015. That growth would continue, with a 476-plane inventory envisioned for 2020.
For intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (ISR) aircraft, the plan projects the 580-plane fleet of 2011 will shrink to 527 aircraft in 2015, before growing to 542 airframes by the end of the span.
The military's airlift inventory is described as "robust and stable." The plan forecasts remarkable stability for strategic lift aircraft, starting at 313 jets in fiscal 2011, then holding steady at 312 through fiscal 2020. Tanker aircraft and intra-theater air lifter inventories also are projected to remain relatively the same. The 549-ship fleet of tankers in 2011 is expected to dip to a low of 531 in 2018 and 2019 before growing to 538 flying gas stations in 2020. The 2011 inventory of 536 intra-theater cargo planes drops to a low of 509 planes in 2016, rising to 538 in 2020.
[...]
William Matthews contributed to this report.
Another follow on. The CBO disagrees with the navy over shipbuilding costs and as a result over the viability of the future naval force planning.
New U.S. Navy Fleet Unaffordable: CBO
By CHRISTOPHER P. CAVAS - Published: 26 May 2010 17:11
The U.S. Navy's plan to build a new fleet over the next 30 years doesn't provide for enough replacement ships, a study says, and the Navy's planned budget for that time period falls far short of supplying enough money.
The Navy envisions buying a total of 276 ships over the next 30 years at an average annual cost of about $16 billion in 2010 dollars for new construction, or about $18 billion for total shipbuilding, which adds in the cost of refueling aircraft carriers. Using a different calculus, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) estimates the cost for new ships at an average $19 billion per year, or $21 billion per year for total shipbuilding.
Eric Labs, who wrote the study, noted in the report that statements in the latest shipbuilding plan and in related briefings by Navy officials point to a planned fleet of 323 ships for most of the next 30 years, up from the long-stated 313-ship goal. But he concludes the construction plan is insufficient to achieve a 323-ship fleet, and that the planned 323-ship fleet is unaffordable if the Navy continues to average about $15 billion per year for shipbuilding. ...
^See link for further detail^
New U.S. Navy Fleet Unaffordable: CBO
By CHRISTOPHER P. CAVAS - Published: 26 May 2010 17:11
The U.S. Navy's plan to build a new fleet over the next 30 years doesn't provide for enough replacement ships, a study says, and the Navy's planned budget for that time period falls far short of supplying enough money.
The Navy envisions buying a total of 276 ships over the next 30 years at an average annual cost of about $16 billion in 2010 dollars for new construction, or about $18 billion for total shipbuilding, which adds in the cost of refueling aircraft carriers. Using a different calculus, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) estimates the cost for new ships at an average $19 billion per year, or $21 billion per year for total shipbuilding.
Eric Labs, who wrote the study, noted in the report that statements in the latest shipbuilding plan and in related briefings by Navy officials point to a planned fleet of 323 ships for most of the next 30 years, up from the long-stated 313-ship goal. But he concludes the construction plan is insufficient to achieve a 323-ship fleet, and that the planned 323-ship fleet is unaffordable if the Navy continues to average about $15 billion per year for shipbuilding. ...
^See link for further detail^