Video of how SU-33 could work off of a PLAN carrier

Having said this, there are risks and disadvantages. The new Su-33UB features an all new wing design that could give greater lift, but also makes the plane bigger than the Su-33. It is likely the new Su-33s will require the combination of canards and TVC to assist in the takeoff. More powerful engines based on the AL-31FM-1 should be used. And then there is the size.

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Will fitting TVC to an Su-33 mean the plane will require a shorter takeoff run I mean isn't the main purpose of TVC to provide better manouvrability not to improve takeoff capabilities.

Also I am curious about one thing concerning TVC, how much extra weight is added through fitting this system to an aircraft?

TVC on russian flankers is designed to allow the aircraft to take off quickly from a carrier deck in the event that it misses the arrester wire on landing. TVC engines typically are one ton heavier than their non-tvc counterparts, but this is canceled out be the more effective thrust direction of the tvc nozzel.

But it's doubtfull that it will be enough to launch a fully laden Su-33UB. When you see the failure with the vanilla Flanker-D, I have my doubts about the much bigger Su-33UB. The engines would have to have something like the double amount of thrust compared to the vanilla Flanker-D, which I doubt will be aveilible.

The engines are, of course, uprated al-31f3s with improved thrust. Canards help reduce the takeoff distance required. Since the TVC engiens are used in case of bad landing, i doubt the plane would have any ordinance on it.

I'm not sure if the hanger picture on the Kuznetsov is the entire or the half of it. Anyway, if the Su-33 has difficulty taking off I would wonder what it can use for AshMs. Probably not at all. But more advanced engines have already been made available. For example the AL-31FNM-1 sold for the J-10 has 13,200kg thrust, more powerful than the standard AL-31F, and it has TVC. Why not a version for the Su-33 as well? Weight can be lightened through composites. That work has already been done on the Su-33UB, which at the expense of some space has larger wing area than the standard Flanker. Turning it into an even lighter single seater won't be hard. The Su-33s in the future just isn't going to be the same as the Su-33s in the past.

I can agree on those statements the day I see a Su-33UB or even a Su-33 taking off from the ski-jump with a decent amount of missiles, especially the promised airlaunched version of the Moskit, receiving the temporary NATO reporting name AS-X-22 Krypton. I doubt it will be do-able without catapults.

Carried on center pylon on static display:


SIMULATION:

The Moskit hanging under the Su-33 is pure airshow BS. The Russians have been rightly criticized for it and from that time on, they only show missiles hanging on planes that actually support the missiles or intend to.

As far as the Moskit, it is far too heavy (4100kg) for the Su-33 to take off, but the weight of such is not indicative of the average AshM today. The Su-33 lacked a radar that has a sea search and target capability that can be used to lock on to ship targets; the radar is a mere navalized N001, which is basically an air to air radar.

Most AshMs weigh around 700kg roughly, because I am assuming this based on the Kh-31A China has acquired and the YJ-83 China uses on its JH-7As. Four of these missiles will not not reach the same weight as a single air launched Moskit, which no country has ordered.

By the way, your facts are off. The Moskit does not have the NATO reporting name of Krypton. The name is Sunburn. The Kh-31A/P are the ones called Krypton. Both missiles are standard and operational equipment on Chinese Su-30MKKs and MK2s. It won't be a stretch to have the required avionics applied on the Su-33. Another AshM, the 450kg Kh-35 Switchblade is smaller still.

The older Su-33s use a slightly overtuned AL-31F. The new ones KnAAPO is trying to sell will use the more powerful -F3 engines. Let us factor that the Su-33KUB introduced in 1999 has revised wings and lifting surfaces for greater lift than the original Su-33.

Would I be right In assuming that as the Russian Navy's Su-33s were built in the late 80's/early 90's that the airframe of these planes would be heavier than any new build Su-33s for the PLAN which will probably have airframes with modern lightweight composites used In their construction.

Anyway heres a couple of good pics from on board Kuznetsov.

crobato said:

The Moskit hanging under the Su-33 is pure airshow BS. The Russians have been rightly criticized for it and from that time on, they only show missiles hanging on planes that actually support the missiles or intend to.

As far as the Moskit, it is far too heavy (4100kg) for the Su-33 to take off, but the weight of such is not indicative of the average AshM today. The Su-33 lacked a radar that has a sea search and target capability that can be used to lock on to ship targets; the radar is a mere navalized N001, which is basically an air to air radar.

Most AshMs weigh around 700kg roughly, because I am assuming this based on the Kh-31A China has acquired and the YJ-83 China uses on its JH-7As. Four of these missiles will not not reach the same weight as a single air launched Moskit, which no country has ordered.

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Yeah, the Moskit is way too heavy to be carried from a carrier-based aircraft like the Su-33.
But would it be able to get off the carrier with it, if the carrier had catapults?

By the way, your facts are off. The Moskit does not have the NATO reporting name of Krypton. The name is Sunburn. The Kh-31A/P are the ones called Krypton. Both missiles are standard and operational equipment on Chinese Su-30MKKs and MK2s. It won't be a stretch to have the required avionics applied on the Su-33. Another AshM, the 450kg Kh-35 Switchblade is smaller still.

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I am terribly sorry. I made an too quick conclusion. I confused the SS-N-22 and the AS-X-22. You are absolutly right; they have nothing in common.

But hey, have the proposed air launched version of the Moskit received an designation yet? Since the Moskit were long thought to be able to be launched by the Su-33, I guess NATO must have thought on something. I doubt it was called "Sunburn", as it denotes a ship launched weapon.

The older Su-33s use a slightly overtuned AL-31F. The new ones KnAAPO is trying to sell will use the more powerful -F3 engines. Let us factor that the Su-33KUB introduced in 1999 has revised wings and lifting surfaces for greater lift than the original Su-33.

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So you belive the Su-33UB/Su-27KUB will be able to take off with a valuable weapon load?


Oh, and btw: I have now digged up pictures of 24 different bort numbered Su-33s, along with alot of Kuznetsov "action" shots. If you guys wan't too, I can host alot of them. Just let me know.

As far as the Kh-41 air launced Moskit goes, it is a dead project. Dead as d-e-a-d. I don't think China plans to buy them so no funds to finish their development. Raduga has concentrated instead on the Kh-59MK antiship missile, which is based on an improvement of the Kh-59ME airframe. Each of these missiles is probably around 900kg and a Flanker is expected to cary two of them. Yes the designation for the missile is Kh-41, but there is no NATO reporting name and why should it have the honor of one, since it never appeared in service.

As far as the Su-33UB goes I would expect that it could carry off the decks with weapons loads. It has redesigned wing surfaces and area tha gives it better lift than the Su-33. It also uses composites to reduce its weight, and recently spotted with TVC nozzles (one wonders who is financing these developments). If fitted with more powerful engines, with TVC, with the new wings and lighter construction, all working in conjunction now, who is to say it won't be able to achieve the task at hand? Let's point out it does not need to lift the Moskit anymore, with the project dead, there should be no requirement for such. But at least it should be able to lift four Kh-31As or Kh-35s, or two Kh-59MKs.