V-22 Osprey Thread - News, Pics, Videos

[Jeff Head]

A little off topic here, but here (over the next two posts) is a history of some of the more successfully flown Tilt-rotor VTOL aircraft (not pure VTOL aircraft) over the last 60 years with their manufacturer and the year of their first flight. The last, the V-280 Valor has not flown yet, but only been shown in full mockup as of 2014..

XV-3 (Bell) - 1955



X-18 (Heller) - 1959



X-19 (Curtiss Wright) - 1963



XC-142A (Vought) - 1964

 

[Jeff Head]

History of Tilt Rotor aircraft since 1955 continued:

XV-15 (Bell) 1977



V-22 (Bell/Boeing) 1989



AW-609 (Augusta Westland) - 2003



V-280 (Bell) - Full Mockup (2014)



There have been others, but these give a pretty good historical overview. I went ahead and created a separate thread about this in the History section. If you want to continue discussion about these types of aircraft in an historical context (say, through the XV-15) post there.

If a military version of the AW-609 is developed, or when the V-280 flies, we will start separate threads for those.

 

[TerraN_EmpirE]

 

[Jura The idiot]

what do you think about this competitor?
Italian Military, Industry Eye Tilt-rotors

ROME — In the time it took Boeing and the US Marines to develop and put into service the Osprey tilt-rotor helicopter, Italy's AgustaWestland has lingered over development of its own, smaller tilt-rotor, prompting questions about the fate of the program.

Initially developed in partnership with Bell, the AW609 has racked up test flights and turned into an all-Italian program after the US firm went its separate way.

But now, there's new interestin the aircraft by the Italian Navy and Army as both look to tilt-rotors to boost capabilities.

Strategy documents issued in recent months by the Army and Navy listed tilt-rotors as high on their shopping lists, just as AgustaWestland announces a series of planned upgrades for the AW609.

On March 3, the Italian firm said it was planning to increase maximum takeoff weight to 18,000 pounds thanks to engine upgrades, landing gear modifications and better flight control techniques. In short, the firm said, the AW609 would now be able to fly 500 nautical miles in two hours carrying nine passengers.

The firm also said it was working on placing extra fuel tanks under the wings to boost maximum range to 1,100 nautical miles, or allow an 800-nautical-mile flight with six passengers in just over three hours.

The cabin door is also being enlarged to help the AW609 qualify for a search-and-rescue role, and a Rockwell Collins Pro Line Fusion flight deck is being added. AgustaWestland said it was aiming for FAA civil certification in 2017.

The firm sees the AW609 as ideal for oil and gas rig flights, and on March 19, Mauro Moretti, the CEO of parent company Finmeccanica, said the aircraft would prompt a "revolution" in the market.

Meanwhile, the Army and Navy are eyeing the aircraft. Last November, the Navy issued a strategy document that identified the tilt-rotor as a key future acquisition.

"It is a way to obtain capabilities that the Navy has been denied due to its small size," said one official.

source:

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[Jeff Head]

what do you think about this competitor?
Italian Military, Industry Eye Tilt-rotors

source:

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Well, it is for the Italians.

It is smaller than the Osprey, and has not been through the rigorous testing and use that the Osprey has been.

If the Italian design ends up having anything close to the types of difficulties that the Osprey experienced (and then overcame), the Italians might be best served to buy Ospreys which have already been through that process. Italy is unlikely to build a lot of their own.

Most other nations who are interested (Japan, Australia, etc.) are looking at the Osprey because it is now proven, and its capabilities exceed that of the Italian aircraft.

Time will tell if Italy can find enough buyers to ever produce many of their own.

Here's a picture of the Japanese testing with their Osumi class LPD.

​

 

[strehl]

It is interesting that the V-280 is in the same size range as the B-609/BA-609/AW-609. Bell chose to develop an all new design rather than dust off and modify the 609. I would guess that build and operating cost were deemed uncompetitive against the S-97. The JMR contest essentially pits the ability of Bell to remove cost from a tilt rotor versus Sikorsky’s ability to boost helicopter performance. On a straight technical performance basis, the tilt rotor is the hands down winner. No air vehicle dependent on thrust will ever match the range of a wing borne aircraft and no helicopter will ever match the speed of a tilt rotor without unacceptable vibration levels. With the failure of the Canard Rotor Wing and the X Wing demonstrators, the Advancing Blade Compound rotor is the last high speed helicopter left standing (yes I am dismissing the Eurocopter X-3). It’s too bad the Quad Tilt Rotor never received funding approval. A C-130 sized VTOL would have been awesome. If I were Lockheed and wanted to keep the Marietta production line viable for another 50 years, I would seriously consider self-funding a bare bones full scale demonstrator.

 

[TerraN_EmpirE]

It is interesting that the V-280 is in the same size range as the B-609/BA-609/AW-609. Bell chose to develop an all new design rather than dust off and modify the 609. I would guess that build and operating cost were deemed uncompetitive against the S-97.

Okay I have my work cut out for me.
First, No.
AW609 is a light weight compared to the aims of the V280.
AW609 is target for a 2 man crew with a 6-9 passenger capacity
V280 is for a 4 man crew and a 14 troop capacity almost double in all regards
Also the S97 Raider is not aimed for the same mission as the V280. Raider is a light scout closer in spec to the AW609 in that is looks for a 2 man crew with a 6 passenger capacity, Sikorsky's offering is the SB-1 Defiant a Joint with Boeing aiming for a 4 man crew with 12 passengers.

The JMR contest essentially pits the ability of Bell to remove cost from a tilt rotor versus Sikorsky’s ability to boost helicopter performance. On a straight technical performance basis, the tilt rotor is the hands down winner. No air vehicle dependent on thrust will ever match the range of a wing borne aircraft and no helicopter will ever match the speed of a tilt rotor without unacceptable vibration levels. With the failure of the Canard Rotor Wing and the X Wing demonstrators, the Advancing Blade Compound rotor is the last high speed helicopter left standing (yes I am dismissing the Eurocopter X-3).

yes and no.
First feel free to dismiss Airbus Helicopter's X3 Although it acheved a high speed Airbus helicopter has shown no interest in production.
second you are correct on speed basis Tilt rotors win. but your also in error. This is not just about speed.
First When compared to existing platforms the V22 and H60 Either concept if they deliver the advertised cruising speeds will out pace both the Osprey and Blackhawk.
I can hear the "Huh?"
Cruising speed is the speed I watch max speed is a sprint demanding stripping it down and best case for a short period.
Cruising speed it the best performance for range. and in that case the H60's 150kt crusing speed is easily smoked by even the Defiant's 250kt Cruising speed projection. and if that doesn't impress you it also out cruises the V22's 241kt cruise speed. V280's Cruise speed is impressive no doubt but is it a absolute need? not really. there is also the needs of performance in high and hot as well as those of transport and deployment from transport's like the C17 and it's eventual replacement as well as naval shipping and in those cases the design of the V280 does not lend it's self to folding for shipping.
https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/s97-raider-and-jmr-fvl-program-news-videos.t7196/

It’s too bad the Quad Tilt Rotor never received funding approval. A C-130 sized VTOL would have been awesome. If I were Lockheed and wanted to keep the Marietta production line viable for another 50 years, I would seriously consider self-funding a bare bones full scale demonstrator.

Well Don't count the Quad out yet. Although I feel confident in JMR Light, Medium and Attack being Sikorsky wins The Coaxial compound configuration maxes out at that point. meaning that JMR-Heavy and Ultra demands are still open.
Heavy aims for a Chinook replacement and in that category a tiltrotor would fit perfectly.
The Ultra would fit a updated Quad perfectly, Although that is also dependent on the USAF,the JMR ULTRA is more of the Army trying to pressure USAF for a A400 class lifter preferably a tilt rotor. However the USAF I suspect are looking for a more conventional Short take off lifter.

 

[Scratch]

The US navy is already drawing up plans for a MLU for the Osprey. Seperate from the issue of looking for a second engine option, it may get a complete new wing and nacelles, plus a rewiring.
Supposed to take place around the 5.000 flight hour mark, I wonder if they already exspect structural integrity of these parts to suffer after that time, or if they just found a more efficient way to mount / operate that complex rotating and folding set of structure.

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US Navy developing early plans for V-22 mid-life upgrade
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Washington DC
Source: Flightglobal.com - 19 hours ago

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that could lead to major structural and electronic changes for the tiltrotor aircraft after the next decade.

The MLU discussions are separate from an ongoing effort to consider alternatives to the

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AE1107C Liberty engine for the V-2 fleet, says Col Dan Robinson, V-22 programme manager for US Naval Air Systems Command (NAVAIR).

Instead, the MLU will begin as the first V-22s reach about 5,000 flight hours some time in the next decade. The highest-time aircraft – a US Air Force CV-22 – is already beyond the 3,000 flight-hour mark, Robinson says.

“It may be a complete structural change of the wing and the nacelles,” Robinson says.

Robinson also describes potential electrical and wiring improvements, along with normal replacements for obsolete components or materials.

It is part of a host of future upgrades coming for a V-22 fleet boosted by a recent US Navy decision that – combined with foreign orders – should extend production well beyond 2020.

The US Navy announced in January that a new version of the V-22 will replace the Northrop

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as the carrier onboard delivery fleet. That decision means the USN will buy at least 48 V-22s after the current multi-year production deal expires at the end of Fiscal 2017. A third multi-year deal will include orders by the navy, marines and the Japanese military, which has purchased five of 17 V-22s in its acquisition plan.

Robinson says he is “optimistic” about signing a deal with Israel for six V-22s in the near future. That contract was nearly signed last December, but was put on hold as the Israeli government entered an elections cycle.

Meanwhile, the US Navy is continuing to consider engine alternatives as the programme begins negotiations over the third multi-year procurement deal, Robinson says. US marines have previously considered selecting the GE Aviation GE38 engine, allowing the fleet to consolidate to a common engine shared between the Sikorsky CH-53K and V-22.

“It’s just prudent to look at what engines are out there,” Robinson says.[/URL]

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[TerraN_EmpirE]

I have been thinking about something like that. The V22 as it stands today uses a system where the entire engine nacelle pivots vertically for transition, same for the Aw609. But Ospreys wing also moves for storage making the wing a single assembly.
Now Bell's next tilt rotor concept the V280 valor is envisioned to use engines in a fixed nacelle with the rotor hub pivots along a 90* axis.
I am thinking that perhaps the Navy envisions scaling the Valor's wings up and mounting them in place of the existing system.

 

[Jeff Head]

I have been thinking about something like that. The V22 as it stands today uses a system where the entire engine nacelle pivots vertically for transition, same for the Aw609. But Ospreys wing also moves for storage making the wing a single assembly.
Now Bell's next tilt rotor concept the V280 valor is envisioned to use engines in a fixed nacelle with the rotor hub pivots along a 90* axis.
I am thinking that perhaps the Navy envisions scaling the Valor's wings up and mounting them in place of the existing system.

That would be a huge change to the V-22. Necessitate, IMHO, far too many redesigns of far too many components.

The rest of the aircraft was designed for static and particularly dynamic loading to fit with the existing structure. You change all of that and the potential impact goes throughout the entire air frame.

If they replace the whole thing, I believe they will simply improve and strengthen the existing assembly.