US Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
... And the most triggered award goes to...

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Clearly triggered by discussions on this forum. Except, where did anyone here make the claim/statement that the US will never produce UADF class drones? Every conversation even those that disparage and mock the US efforts specifically focused on the level of Increment 1 CCA drones which the US have not even been able to field into service yet.

No doubt the US is looking to develop and eventually field UADF class drones as part of Increment 2 which BTW aims to have flying prototypes around 2027. Lockheed Martin's own words and goals, not mine.

So we have China with at least 2 UADFs in service today vs US aiming to produce equivalents and flying prototypes of said equivalents in 2027. Even then, the Northrop Grumman Increment 2 Lotus UADF is not aiming to produce a tailless aircraft. Nevermind that, there are distinct disadvantages surely with going completely tailless - cost, complexity and kinematic performance.

NAFO copium and cries of frustration are getting out of hand. They will double down on anger and denial until some great event. Even then, I suspect they will be as delusional and out of touch with reality as the most hyper-nationalistic Indians.

If anyone checks out that thread and reads up on the X-47B and the claim that it's the most advanced combat drone to have flown. How does anyone possibly know that. All that statement and belief does is signal an amazing degree of bias and unwillingness to assess things logically. The X-47B may well be the most advanced drone to have flown but it numbers exactly 0. Someone else could quite easily claim UADF A and B are the most advanced drones to have flown. At least those two are in active service or at least with the PLAAF in training and doctrine development.

Increment 2 is 7-10 years behind UADF A and B if they are producing similar level performing aircraft. Something coming out that much later does have several inherent advantages provided the industrial and technological base between the two sides progress at the same rate and offer the same level of capabilities in a certain timeframe. The issue with feeling good about Increment 2 UADFs for the USAF is that China is also working on next generation UADFs. It'll be China's second gen when the Increment 2s become the USAF's first gen. Recognising these things separate the blowhards with those simply biased but still capable of critical and rational thought.

All the Mr. Muh Murica Bigly Bestest online are never going to wake up but the world simply moves on. The US is about to collapse under the greatest economic bubble ever created in human history and they still believe the US MIC can be fed the usual feast.


Look at what China is developing in terms of air dominance aircraft which all have broadband stealth:

J-36. 3engines. 2 pilots
J-50. 2engines. 1? pilot
UADF-Type A. 1engine. Unmanned
UADF-Type B. 1engine. Unmanned

---

But if the CCA Increment 2 aircraft [Lockheed Vectis and Northrop Lotus] still have tailfins, presumably they will be easily detected by long-wave volume search radars. Then the Chinese aircraft should be able to get the first shots off and disengage without being detected.

So my view is that Air Dominance now requires broadband stealth, so the Vectis and Lotus are **critically** inferior in the Air Dominance role.

Btw, plarealtalk (on that reddit thread) is one of the mods here
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
Vectis is tailless, nothing is known about Lotus yet but I don't expect it to be anything less than Lockheed's proposal.

TWZ is saying the Lotus has tails.

So for CCA Increment 2, my guess the US would buy both the Vectis and Lotus, because they are in different categories.

Given that the Pentagon has already publicly stated there is a shortage of aerospace engineers, it makes sense to only develop different CCAs that they will definitely proceed with, and not waste development resources on directly competing designs which will be binned after a competition.
 

Sinnavuuty

Captain
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Debrief: Generational Change—USAF Adjusts Fighter Generation Thinking​

For more than three decades, the combat aircraft community has classified fighter development into generations.

Readers will be familiar with how fighters have been cataloged by their capabilities, whether they were supersonic, had a radar and or could perform multiple missions, and so on.

Today, this approach has also become a marketing tool. Lockheed Martin was arguably the first to use it as such, labeling its F-35 Joint Strike Fighter and F-22 Raptor as the only fifth-generation platforms available. Their low-observable capabilities, advanced avionics and sensor fusion distinguished them from competitors such as the
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F-15 and F/A-18 Super Hornet, Dassault Rafale, Eurofighter Typhoon and Saab Gripen. Other companies have since adopted that approach. And the terms have been widely used by senior officers, politicians, analyst and journalists as a convenient means of defining how combat aircraft have evolved.

Some in industry have long contended that these definitions were disingenuous, even as they were guilty of using them themselves.


Now it seems the U.S. Air Force wants to put this generational lexicon out to pasture. According to senior planners speaking at the International Fighter Conference here, the service is discussing whether the nomenclature should continue to be used.

“We are having an internal discussion about that nomenclature not really being useful to us anymore relative to the capabilities that exist out there,” said the officer, who cannot be identified because of a Chatham House rule imposed on the discussions at the event.

Technology and more advanced weapons increasingly “challenge the notion of the fourth-, fifth- and sixth-generation capabilities,” he said. “There is an argument to be made that the advances in those technologies, coupled with advanced weapons and the ranges that they bring ... elevate some of those [aircraft] that would have traditionally been considered fourth-generation platforms to something more akin to a fifth-generation capability.”

They pointed to the example of newly upgraded
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F-15Es fitted with the Eagle Passive Active Warning Survivability System (Epawss), which had become somewhat comparable, at least in some scenarios, to the F-35.

“We are certainly not making the case that an F-15 will do all the things that an F-35 can do, but we do think that it is a little bit misleading to refer to that [F-15] as a fourth-generation platform,” the officer said.

The change in lexicon would help inform decisions on combat capability and could prompt more modernization versus acquiring brand-new aircraft, he appeared to hint.

Part of the move, the officer suggested, was influenced by a need to evolve how combat capability was reported to decision-makers. The service is proposing a legislative change in which the service would report its “combat-capable total aircraft inventory” as opposed to its “primary mission aircraft inventory.”

He said the change would “paint a more accurate picture” of the aircraft available to generate combat airpower and the Air Force’s surge capacity.
As soon as China started mass-producing 5th generation aircraft and demonstrating two 6th generation aircraft, the Americans no longer want to use generation classification.
 

ACuriousPLAFan

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As soon as China started mass-producing 5th generation aircraft and demonstrating two 6th generation aircraft, the Americans no longer want to use generation classification.

And then there's also this:

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U.S. Air Force Chief Confirms the F-47 Fighter is 3-4 Years Behind its Chinese Rivals in Entering Flight Testing


Though the actual statement is this:
US. Air Force Chief of Staff General David Allvin on November 12 confirmed that the F-47 sixth generation fighter is intended to make its first flight in 2028, which represents the most explicit public reference to the fighter program’s flight timeline by officials so far.

Engineers and technicians at Chengdu AC and Shenyang AC: "So we're rushed off our a$$es to get the J-36 and J-XDS prototypes - More than one unit each - Up into the sky for this? Really?"
 
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Aniah

Senior Member
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And then there's also this:

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Though the actual statement is this:


Engineers and technicians at Chengdu AC and Shenyang AC: "So we're rushed off our a$$es to get the J-36 and J-XDS prototypes - More than one unit each - Up into the sky for this? Really?"
You missed this gem in the article.

"The complexity of sixth generation technologies has led experts to widely allude to a two-horse race, with Russian and joint Japanese-British programs not expected to produce fighters with comparable capabilities, and being considered to produce aircraft that in the best cases may be on par with modernised U.S. and Chinese fifth generation designs."

Straight up saying Russia and everyone elses upcoming next gen jets will only be on par with the US and China's fifth-generation fighters.

-OOF
 
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