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Brumby

Brumby

Major
Jura said:
... and I quit here, didn't read what baloney you envisioned for the Stringray, remembering it'd been the Pentagon envisioning various forms of baloney for the Stringray
Aug 21, 2016
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I am not advocating any baloney for the MQ-25. Historically if we look at its development, the USN was interested in a ISR plus strike capability but downgraded it substantially to tanker role given the urgency to fill a capability gap. I am simply saying that I expect the MQ-25 will eventually grow into an ISR plus strike capability because it is such a natural progression in any high end threat environment.
 
Jura The idiot

Jura The idiot

General
Brumby said:
I am not advocating any baloney for the MQ-25.
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you are advocating 'Stingray recon tanker' baloney


Brumby said:
Historically if we look at its development, the USN was interested in a ISR plus strike capability but downgraded it substantially to tanker role given the urgency to fill a capability gap.
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'Stingray recon tanker' had been the Pentagon's baloney which made NG quit
Northrop pulls out of MQ-25 drone competition

October 25, 2017
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:
“When we’re looking at one of these opportunities, let me be clear: Our objective is not just to win. Winning is great, it feels good on the day of an announcement, but if you can’t really execute on it and deliver on it to your customer and your shareholders, then you’ve done the wrong thing,” Northrop head Wes Bush said during an Oct. 25 earnings call.


Brumby said:
I am simply saying that I expect the MQ-25 will eventually grow into an ISR plus strike capability because it is such a natural progression in any high end threat environment.
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eventually baloney
 
Brumby

Brumby

Major
Jura said:
you are advocating 'Stingray recon tanker' baloney


'Stingray recon tanker' had been the Pentagon's baloney which made NG quit
Northrop pulls out of MQ-25 drone competition

October 25, 2017
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:
“When we’re looking at one of these opportunities, let me be clear: Our objective is not just to win. Winning is great, it feels good on the day of an announcement, but if you can’t really execute on it and deliver on it to your customer and your shareholders, then you’ve done the wrong thing,” Northrop head Wes Bush said during an Oct. 25 earnings call.


eventually baloney
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NG made a commercial reason not to compete. We deal with facts. Please articulate how is your "baloney" comment anchored on.
 
Jura The idiot

Jura The idiot

General
Brumby said:
... Please articulate how is your "baloney" comment anchored on.
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it was baloney to come up with 'Stingray recon tanker'

because

the design priorities of strike and ISR are discordant with each other (now I used the words from inside of
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),

and you're advocating that baloney, now noticed you even added strike capability LOL

"I am simply saying that I expect the MQ-25 will eventually grow into an ISR plus strike capability because it is such a natural progression in any high end threat environment."

#11031 Brumby, 37 minutes ago
 
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Jura The idiot

Jura The idiot

General
two stories now:
Defense Department Awards Boeing $14.3B Bomber Maintenance Contract
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Boeing Co. has won a $14.3 billion contract to service and maintain all
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and
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bombers at
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in Oklahoma City.

The contract includes hardware and software development and integration, ground and flight testing, configuration management, studies and analyses and modernization, said the Department of Defense in a statement last week.

The agreement continues a Boeing contract awarded 10 years ago to service aircraft at Tinker, which is a major part of the Air Force's maintenance, repair and overhaul network, The Oklahoman reported.

"That's great news for our workforce here," said Lori Rasmussen, a spokeswoman for Boeing. "Boeing's employment numbers in Oklahoma have been on an upward trend. They are expected to remain so. The bombers' modernization efforts will continue to play a significant role in the growth of the Oklahoma City site."

The Defense Department said it didn't solicit any other companies for the bomber service contract at Tinker because Boeing is the original equipment manufacturer and has possession of all airframe and systems information.

Rasmussen said Boeing's first project under the new contract will be an advanced, high frequency communications integration study costing a projected $1.2 million.

Maintenance of the B-21 Raider, a long-range stealth bomber expected to replace the B-1 and B-52 in the mid-2020s, will also take place at Tinker.
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and
Boeing in $14.3bn deal for B-1, B-52 modernisation
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Boeing has secured a $14.3 billion contract for upgrade work for US Air Force B-1 and B-52 bombers.

“This B-1/B-52 Flexible Acquisition and Sustainment contract provides for the upcoming modernisation and sustainment efforts to increase lethality, enhance survivability, improve supportability, and increase responsiveness,” says the US Department of Defense in a 12 April contract award.

The work, ordered under a sole source contract, will be conducted in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, and be completed by 11 April 2029. It was awarded by the air force Life Cycle Management Center.

The award follows news in March that Boeing won a $250 million contract to integrate the Long Range Stand-Off Cruise Missile (LRSO) on the B-52H.

Lockheed Martin and Raytheon are developing competing versions of the LRSO, with the USAF scheduled to award a production contract around 2022. The service plans to start fielding the missile in the late 2020s.

The LRSO is a replacement for the Boeing AGM-86 air-launched cruise missile, which was designed in the mid-1970s and first fielded in 1982. The new missile will also to be integrated on the USAF’s forthcoming Northrop Grumman B-21 stealth bomber.

In February, USAF started testing an upgraded version of the B-52's Conventional Rotary Launcher, which would allow it to drop eight joint direct attack munitions from its belly.

Cirium's Fleets Analyzer shows that the USAF operates 76 B-52Hs with an average age of 57.2 years, and 61 B-1Bs with an average age of 31.6 years.
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Brumby

Brumby

Major
Jura said:
it was baloney to come up with 'Stingray recon tanker'

because

the design priorities of strike and ISR are discordant with each other (now I used the words from inside of
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),

and you're advocating that baloney, now noticed you even added strike capability LOL

"I am simply saying that I expect the MQ-25 will eventually grow into an ISR plus strike capability because it is such a natural progression in any high end threat environment."

#11031 Brumby, 37 minutes ago
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So let's use that article that you provided and unpack it. There were at least three people with their comments mentioned in that linked article.

There is the CNO of the USN and I quote :
Critics argue that the next-generation unmanned aircraft was trying to do too much in aiming to be a tanker for the manned air wing and a roving sensor, but Chief of Naval Operations Adm. John Richardson emphasized in an interview that the yet-to-be-designed Stingray would be primarily for aerial refueling missions.
"The Navy is very clearly aligned on an unmanned aircraft that will provide, first and foremost, tanking to the air wing," Richardson said in an Navy Times interview Monday. "We feel the need to extend the strike range of the air wing out and this will primarily be a mission tanker to extend that range out. Those are the features that will drive the design of the airframe."
Richardson said that once the service gets the design for the aerial tanker straightened out, they can add intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance features.
"Now when you get to that point, and you find the optimal things for the tanking mission, for little to no additional cost you can put a sensing payload on it and get some ISR benefit as a secondary feature of the aircraft," Richardson said. "That is what we are building."
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The CNO is basically saying the same thing that I did. Get an initial design out for tanking. Then build on proven design with ISR capabilities and then eventually with strike. Such a pathway is in fact very common as variants are added to the base design.

You then have Shoemaker and I qupte :
During a presentation at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, Naval Air Forces head Vice Adm. Mike Shoemaker told the audience that designers were trying to find a balance between the design requirements for tanking — which requires a big fuel capacity to fly long distances — and the fuel efficient, big wingspan requirements for an ISR drone that can hover overhead for extended periods.
"If you're going to be a tanker at range, you're obviously going to have to be able to carry a fair amount of fuel internal to the platform. That drives the different design for those two," Shoemaker said. "So the industry is working on an analysis of where that sweet spot is to do both of those missions."
The Navy canceled a program to develop an unmanned ISR and strike platform in February in favor of an aerial tanker to increase the range of the aircraft carrier's strike arm, as potential foes like China and Russia have been feverishly working to extend the range of their shore-based anti-ship missiles.
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Designs are always about trade offs. The more capabilities that are added, the more complex the design and cost. If the plan is get something up and running quickly then the easiest is to simplify the design which in the case of MQ-25 was to be tanker only.

We then get to your discordant comment which was from Hendrix, an analyst and I quote :
There should be no design trade-off that splits the difference between ISR and aerial tanking requirements, argues Jerry Hendrix, a retired naval flight officer and analyst with the Center for a New American Security.
"Shoemaker, to his credit, acknowledged that the design priorities of strike and ISR were discordant with each other," Hendrix wrote in a column for The National Interest magazine. "It is clear that trying to get to a 'sweet spot' between these two is counterproductive and misses the point; the decision to cancel the Unmanned Carrier Launched Airborne Surveillance and Strike program and create the MQ-25 Stingray tanker was done specifically to speedily address the Navy's strategic deficit in long range strike."
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Hendrix assessment was reasonable in that initially the USN was trying to pack too many things into the design. However there is nothing discordant that once there is an initial proven design, that a variant is added to the airframe for other purpose. For example, a tanker has to provide both usage and tanking fuel. In an ISR role, the design can substitute space for tanking with sensor avionics as a variant. Why is that discordant and baloney?
 
Jura The idiot

Jura The idiot

General
Brumby said:
... In an ISR role, the design can substitute space for tanking with sensor avionics as a variant. Why is that discordant and baloney?
Click to expand...
because a tanker isn't recon or bomber aircraft!

it's a specialized aircraft what makes sense, as in
Today at 9:23 AM
Jura said:
two stories now:
Defense Department Awards Boeing $14.3B Bomber Maintenance Contract
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and
Boeing in $14.3bn deal for B-1, B-52 modernisation
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Click to expand...
 
Jura The idiot

Jura The idiot

General
Brumby said:
So ...
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... in case if you pretended you didn't know what's compromised design

(I'm guessing you'll keep giving me 'Stingray tanker recon bomber' which I repeatedly told would be baloney EDIT and this is my last post on this),

I'm giving you an example of the F-22 program at one point declared (not an exact quote) 'niche-role, silver bullet' and truncated;

I think the Pentagon since then has noticed that one size doesn't fit all, but of course will have to procure the F-35 Wunderwaffe,

as in Yesterday at 2:35 PM
Jura said:
now
Lockheed Martin Says New F-35 Supplier Contracts Will Reduce Aircraft Costs
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:

The following is the F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter Production Status from Vice Adm. Mat Winter, the director of Joint Strike Fighter program office.

As of April 2019, 386 F-35 air systems have been delivered, with about 20 percent going to international partners and customers. Ultimately, international partners and customers are expected to receive 780 F-35 aircraft.

The U.S. military will eventually receive 2,456 divvied up among the service branches as follows:

  • 1,763 F-35A fighters to the Air Force
  • 353 F-35B fighters to the Marine Corps
  • 67 F-35C fighters to the Marine Corps
  • 273 F-35C fighters to the Navy
 
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