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anzha said:

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And how is the US Navy's Next Generation Fighter about the F-35?

NGF != F-35. Neither is the NGAD.

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anzha said:

It's right there in the budget dox.
The 2030+ AD working groups methodically assessed candidate concepts using USAF directives and guidance. Resulting concepts informed the NGAD Analysis of Alternatives (AoA), which is in the final stages of coordination.

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anzha said:

They're normally reporting behind where they really are for security reasons. Everyone does that, not just the USAF.

You don't need $1B for an AOA.

It should be obvious, but the AOA won't be made public.

Refer to my answers above. $1.4 Billion of development funds were spent but the NGB program was deferred because there was no clarity on requirement. We have the same issue with the NGF today. In my opinion, by the time we get to Block 5 of the F-35 program (late 20's or early 30's) we would probably we looking at a F=35 2.0. it will be equipped with lasers, an uprated AETD and have a loyal wingman. What is the NGF able to offer that the F-35 2.0 cannot deliver?

TE if you are reading this, can you please do the honours of moving all the NGF discussions to the 6th generation thread as I don't know how to do it. All these discussions are clogging up the main thread.
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Jura said:

714/174 is more than four:
U.S. Army Awards General Dynamics Delivery Order to Upgrade 174 Abrams Main Battle Tanks

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While the Corps buys modification kits for its Abrams tanks, the Army has had a new version for two years and eyes another upgrade by 2025.

The Marine Corps will continue to upgrade its

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and is pushing ahead on a bridging system to replace the legacy M60 tank, a Vietnam-era tank used to unfold bridges that can support the Abrams as it crosses gaps in the battlefield.

Recently released budget request documents show that the Corps is asking for about the same amount of money to continue the

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in 2020 but will double then nearly triple that amount to

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through 2024.

The M1A1 Abrams upgrade program includes modifications kits and money for support vehicles and devices. Those include the Assault Bridging Modernization Program that replaces the M60 and launching system of the Armored Vehicle Launching Bridge, used extensively in the 2003 Iraq invasion.

The kit also improves the Improved Recovery Vehicle, or the M88A2 Hercules, that can haul tanks off the battlefield for maintenance or recover them from ditches, canals or other hazards it might encounter.

In 2018 and 2019 the Corps sought nearly $23 million for the packages, which will increase steadily to $37.6 million in 2021 and upward until at least 2024 when $57.7 million is projected for the kits.

Some of the specific enhancements to the Abrams itself include a gunner’s primary sight lower panel. While the title sounds somewhat technical it provides a way for Marine gunners to stay in the fight.

The sight “will enable the tank to fire two new types of ammunition being developed by the U.S. Army,” according to the budget justification documents presented to Congress.

A tactical communications upgrade aims to replace the legacy AN/PRC 119 radios currently on the tank. And some basic items such as cabling, mounts and installation hardware is needed to install the Abrams Integrated Display and Targeting System.

While the Marines still use the M1A1 version of the Abrams tank the Army began fielding version 3 upgrade of the M1A2 version 3 in 2017, also known as the M1A2C, and an improved M1A2D is under development.

The M1A2C enhancements address on-board power, electronics, computing, weapons, force protection and sensors.

Those advances include:

Joint Tactical Radio System: The new system integrates various radio types into the system and allows for network readiness and interoperability with the rest of the brigade combat team.

Power Generation and Distribution: This enhancement includes improved amperage alternator, Slip Ring, Enhanced Hull Power Distribution Unit/Common Remote Switching Modules, and the Battery Monitoring System. These changes compensate for increased power demands of newer tank equipment.

• Line Replaceable Unit/Line Replaceable Module redesign: New modules allow for troubleshooting within the system to the card level without the need to remove the entire system to conduct repairs.
• Counter Remote Control IED Electronic Warfare version 3: This is the latest version of the tank’s counter-IED equipment.
• Ammunition Data Link: The ADL allows tankers to program the M829A4 Advanced Kinetic Energy and Advanced Multi-Purpose rounds.
• Auxiliary Power Unit: Allows tankers to operate the on-board system during silent watch operations for reduced detection probability.
• Armor Upgrades: Undisclosed advances in ballistic protection.

They are primarily a bridge to the version four variant planned for the 2020s.

The M1A2D’s “cornerstone” tech is 3rd Generation Forward-Looking Infrared (FLIR) sight on both weapons sights.

That upgrade will “integrate a color camera, Eye-safe Laser Range Finder and a cross-platform laser pointer to facilitate multidomain battle in to the commander’s sight,” according to Army officials.

The M1A2D is slated for testing in 2021, production in 2023 and fielding by 2025, according to Army officials.

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Jura said:

I think it's basically happening due to egregious delays, cost overruns in the F-35 program, its sustainment

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The acting defense secretary’s ties to the company had nothing to do with the decision, a senior defense official said Friday.

The decision to buy new Boeing F-15s reflects the Pentagon’s desire to keep two American companies making fighter jets into the next decade — and not the acting defense secretary’s ties to the company, a senior defense official said Friday.

The 2020 budget request contains $1.1 billion to buy eight F-15X jets, a new variant of an aircraft the Air Force last bought nearly a decade ago. The twin-tailed plane was chosen over Lockheed’s cheaper single-engine F-16 in part to keep a second U.S. manufacturer in the tactical-jet business as the Pentagon begins exploring new technologies for a new generation of warplanes, the official said.

“One of the considerations was the diversity of the industrial base,” the official said. “If we look at something as important as the tactical aircraft industrial base and we look forward into sixth-generation [fighter] production and competition and that kind of stuff,…gaining diversity in that industrial base is going to be critical.”

The senior defense official emphasized that Acting Defense Secretary Patrick Shanahan, who formerly worked as a Boeing executive, was not involved in the decision to buy the F-15X.

“When it came to any specific platform that involved Boeing, those conversations were held strictly away from him,” the official said.

Upon entering government service in 2017, Shanahan

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from all dealings involving his former employer. But on Wednesday, the Defense Department’s inspector general confirmed that it had

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into “complaints that we recently received that Acting Secretary Shanahan allegedly took actions to promote his former employer, Boeing, and disparage its competitors, allegedly in violation of ethics rules,” an IG spokesman said. On Friday, the Pentagon released an

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that Shanahan signed when he became acting secretary in January.

Since Shanahan and other top Trump administration political appointees at the Pentagon have ties to the defense industry, their aides are trained to make sure the officials are not involved in decisions related to their former employers, a second senior defense official said. They were extra cautious, particularly during budget deliberations.

“We had to be very careful about it,” the second official said.

Last fall, the Pentagon’s Cost Assessment and Program Evaluation office recommended that the Air Force buy a mix of F-35s and an in-production fourth-generation fighter — a candidate pool that includes the F-16, F-15, and Boeing’s F/A-18. By mid-October, the Air Force agreed, and picked the F-15. Then-Defense Secretary James Mattis

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, Pentagon deputy controller Elaine McCusker said last week.

Shanahan’s “part of that process was really limited to broad capability discussions and force-shape discussions, but it really didn’t get down into any of the specific platforms,” the first official said.

The Air Force, Navy, and Marine Corps, as well as a growing number of U.S. allies, are buying the fifth-generation F-35, a stealthy warplane with advanced sensors that Pentagon officials say is critical to the wars of the future. For years, the Air Force has refused to buy new F-15s or F-16s even as their existing fleets grew tired from nearly two decades of use supporting ground troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, opting only for the F-35.

But the senior defense official said Friday that fourth-generation planes, particularly the F-15 has an essential role in the future battles, signaling out homeland defense a protecting U.S. bases in the Pacific.

“We can do those other missions with fourth-[generation] planes more affordably,” the official said. “Our fourth-gen inventory as it is right now is aging out and we’re starting to see some capacity shortfalls.”

The senior officials said that fourth-generation aircraft will remain useful in counterrorism operations, even as the Pentagon’s National Defense Strategy focuses on near-peer fights with Russia and China.

F-15E Strike Eagles — an older version of the F-15EX — have been used on and off for close air support missions in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Syria for nearly 20 years. The officials said that the F-15s, when armed with long-range cruise missiles, could also play a role in a high-end battle.

“There is a role for penetrating assets [like F-35] to go downtown, to get inside their air defenses,” the official said. “But there’s a role for standoff munitions.”

The decision to buy the F-15s, a move that Congress must still approve, puts pressure on Lockheed to lower the cost of its F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, which for years experienced of developmental delays and cost overruns. The price of the F-35

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in recent years and the reliability of newer jets improving.

The first senior defense official said the Pentagon expects the new F-15EX to cost about $90 million per copy. The F-35 is expected to cost about $80 million in 2020.

Lockheed has argued that its F-35 would cost the Pentagon less than new F-15s, and that it could increase production to meet demand.

“Should the U.S. Air Force or any other customer plan to increase their annual procurement rate, we are confident we can meet increased demand — while continuing to deliver an $80 million F-35A by 2020, which is equal to or less cost than legacy aircraft,” Michael Friedman, a company spokesman, said in an email Friday.

Right now, the Air Force plans to buy 240 F-35s between 2020 and 2024.

“Lockheed Martin and our partners have been ramping our manpower, material, methods and machines to ensure we are prepared to deliver the maximum number of aircraft across the three Final Assembly and Checkout facilities for our current and growing customer base,” Friedman said. “With these actions, the F-35 enterprise has capacity to deliver about 430 U.S. Air Force F-35As in that same timeframe, or about 190 more than currently planned.”

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Jura said:

tragicomic they don't ever mention actual combat value ("value") of some vessels being procured for example 35 LCSs Sep 18, 2018
, just aggregate number in ...

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Here Is The Navy's Ultra Ambitious New Plan To Get To 355 Ships In Just 15 Years

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Report to Congress on the Annual Long-Range Plan for Construction of Naval Vessels for Fiscal Year 2020

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Jura said:

Mar 16, 2019
and now
Pentagon: We’re Buying Boeing F-15s to Keep 2 Fighter Makers in Business

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Why didn't the Defense Department propose adding an upgraded

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into its inventory instead the F-15EX fourth-gen plus aircraft it is currently pursuing?

To keep the industrial diversity, according to a senior defense official.

In order to keep a "robust industrial base" and "to have multiple providers in the tactical aircraft portfolio," officials with the Cost Assessment and Program Evaluation office arrived at the

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because the aircraft provided "a higher-capacity" combination alongside Lockheed Martin's

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, a senior defense official told reporters at the Pentagon on Friday.

An F-16 jet would mean another Lockheed fighter, and the DoD wants to maintain a balance between the two largest defense companies. (That said, the U.S.

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is still buying

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).

"One of the considerations was the diversity of the industrial base," the senior defense official said. "Maintaining a diverse industrial base is in the best interest of the Department of Defense. The more diversity, the more competition ... and the better prices we have."

Then-Secretary of Defense Jim Mattis directed the Pentagon to seek out a mix of stand-in versus stand-off tactical aircraft, the official said. The aircraft that would first penetrate defenses would be an F-35 Joint Strike Fighter -- a stand-in aircraft -- followed by a platform like the F-15EX -- a stand-off fighter -- which would team up to take out targets once the airspace becomes clear.

Mattis, however, did not decide on the specific aircraft model, the official clarified.

The official's comments come shortly after the Defense Department Inspector General launched an investigation into

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over his past ties to Boeing, where he worked for 30 years. As deputy defense secretary, Shanahan joined other top leaders to promote the F-15X fourth-generation fighter proposal, Bloomberg said in December.

The official on Friday stressed that Shanahan has not been involved in any discussions pertaining to the F-15EX future procurement.

"This was CAPE bringing it to the forefront," the official said.

As older fourth-gen models such as the F-15C/D Eagle continue to deteriorate, officials looked for a follow-on aircraft that offered affordability and capability.

"We also simply need a certain quantity of platforms with which to deliver ordnance -- we can do those other missions with fourth-gen planes more affordably," the senior defense official said.

The official said the Defense Department wasn't particularly interested in

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because of life cycle costs that include operations and sustainment.

"Fifth-gen platforms are more expensive than fourth-gen platforms, so from a capacity standpoint, we can simply buy more capacity with a mix of planes that appropriately match the mission set," the official said.

The F-35's total cost has been projected at more than

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.

An F-35 would also be too expensive for the homeland alert mission that the Air

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's F-15C/D fleet currently owns.

The cost of the Air Force's

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has dropped to $89 million per aircraft, according to the Joint Program Office.

The Pentagon's Cost Assessment and Program Evaluation office, known as CAPE, estimates the price per F-15EX jet would average about $90 million.

In its fiscal 2020 request,

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brand-new

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at a cost of $1.05 billion. Air Force officials on March 12 during the budget request rollout said that cost could rise from the original $80 million projected estimate when accounting for non-recurring engineering costs in the first year of procurement.

The budget decisions speak to the "aviation road map" of the Air Force and thinking on just how many fighter aircraft the service needs to sustain the future fight into 2030 and beyond, the official said.

The Pentagon wants to buy 144 F-15EX planes over the next decade.

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gelgoog said:

I think the acquisition made sense 20 years ago but right now even China has the J-16.
The F-15X regardless of how many upgrades it gets is a less competitive airframe than the Su-27.

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Brumby said:

Please enlighten us how is the F-15 airframe less competitive than the SU-27.

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gelgoog said:

I think we already went into that discussion. The Su-27 has better maneuverability than the F-15. Try to do the Cobra maneuver on the F-15.

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gelgoog said:

The Su-27 also carries a lot more fuel internally in a clean configuration

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gelgoog said:

Then if you compare the F-15 with the Su-35, which has much more modern engines

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gelgoog said:

Simply put the F-15 isn't good enough. The airframe is antique even for a non-stealth aircraft and the engines are last generation. The only advantage would be in electronics including radar. The platform itself is worse.

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