Jura The idiot
General
Aug 7, 2018
USAF Command Behind Light Attack Aircraft Program Now Says It May Never Fly Those Planes
US Military News, Reports, Data, etc.
- Thread starter tphuang
- Start date
I just don't understand why the USAF does not execute a contract for the A-29. That's the best light attack aircraft in the World. what is the hold-up? They've been wrestling around with this bird for years and still no decision but indecision..I smell a POLITICIAN lurking around..somewhere!
Jura The idiot
General
Yesterday at 9:03 PM
Test Validates New US Interceptor for European, Japanese Missile Shields
related:
Test Validates New US Interceptor for European, Japanese Missile Shields
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
Brazil.
They have to consider domestic before going to buy abroad. Those that are have to be funneled though a American contractor.
But the biggest issue is need.
Does the USAF need a fleet of brand new turboprop attack trainers?
Most that have been bought have been painted up and sent to Iraq and Afghanistan. Where they actually end up costing more to operate than justified or basically in support of Iranian proxy forces.
For domestic use, since we have three of the best Airforces in the world. The USAF. Your own USN and the USMC with aircraft that although not as cheap on that job can do almost the same missions why bother?
Most of the missions they would be best suited for are already taken by F16, F/A18, A10, AC130, F15E soon F35 in all flavors, Texan trainers and Reaper drones.
An A29 wouldn't last very long against peer players. Neither would a Reaper but no one sheds tears for drones.
The only party who has a deep interest is Socom, and maybe training commands.
Socom because they want something light to support irregular warfare ops. That means a small batch and even then it's iffy.
Training commands because we can help trainer less stable allies like say Mexico conduct boarder survailence to Stop narcotics and insurgent activity. Which is basically what we use reaper drones for.
But training like that can be taken by a PMC.
Jura The idiot
General
Jura The idiot
General
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
Look here is a dirty little secret of CAS, Dedicated CAS birds rarely do it.
It's not because of glory of the fighter, it's not because of budget it's because when the call comes in its first come first served. And usually that first service is already in the Air. Already in the Air is usually fighter cap.
So what is the more useful CAS? The A10 that is parked on the tarmac needing to be fueled armed and manned let's say 30 minutes to take off then another 15 for flight or a F22 with a pair of SDB and 20mm rounds that can get there in 5?
Jura The idiot
General
I found your argumentation tragicomic, as the source I reposted Today at 9:59 PM says
"The night air strikes targeted plantations of poppy (processed into illegal opiate drugs such as heroin) in Helmand Province: ..."
so I would've thought the field could've waited until the morning to get bombed
With that kind of argument you could say any aircraft is useless and you are better off using a long range ballistic missile to hit targets. There is such a thing as loiter time. The A10 has plenty of it. Then is another thing. Which is called availability rate. Which the A10 has plenty of and the F22 has not. Then there is yet another thing which is situational awareness. An A10 pilot can fly low and identify targets with the Mark I eyeball while an F22 pilot won't bother to come down in an insurgent area because they know the airplane is too expensive to risk and vulnerable to even small arms fire. Which leads me to the last thing which is operating costs per mission.
Calling the A10 a single role aircraft is kinda reductionist. They operate CAS, they do TacAir, they could even do anti-shipping missions against boat swarms if you wanted to. They have the systems to do it. Which aircraft did the Russians send when they closed down the Kerch Strait last time? The Ka-52 Aligator helicopter and the Su-25 Frogfoot airplane.
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
here we go twisting things. I never said that A10 was useless it's just a question in CAS of what is more critical getting something not or later? Now is more useful. Now when it's bad later when it's alot worse.
And long range ballistic missiles would be worse it takes to long to get from the home nation to target.
yes it does but it still takes a lot longer to get somewhere and if it's not already in the Air then it's not as effective. Farther more with surface to air missiles and antiair artillery there survival rate drops.
A F22 or F35 or F16 or FA18 may not skim the weeds but there stand off weapons mean that they also don't have to.
If they get a call for fire support and are already in the air they can go super sonic and get on station faster than a subsonic A10.
283 active A10 as of FY2015. That number is expected to drop in the next few years to on par with F22. Avalibility rate is meaningless if it's not able to get on station in time. And if it's not already airborne.
people think the A10 is somehow invulnerable. Dozens have been shot down and as it is now older it's harder to get the spare parts to patch the bullet holes.
F16 has done far more CAS ops than A10, And returned home from more than A10. Why? Because flying low and slow and soaking up ground fire hoping that the jet survives is tempting fate. Stand off weapons are the method of survival for ground attack. Look at recent history the Hellfire not the Avenger gun. The SDB, not the rocket pod, even that is turning into a stand off system with APKWS and DAGR
which would sky rocket the moment an A10 starts taking a beating. Or worse smacks into the ground with a missile blowing it in two.
oh yes the vaunted Russians....
They sent the KA52 because it could be operated from no field conditions they could park it on that bridge they built refuel and rearm. The Ukranian has no air defence in the area. So the KA52 could stand off from the machine guns and pick off boats with missiles as they please.
Any modern attack chopper could do that.
The SU25 has been on in the Russians replacement list for just as long as A10. There budget and limited production capacity has kept it up.
But again vs no air defence it's fine. Same for the birds aimed to replace it the SU34 and yak 131
or even turboprops like the A29, or the old OV1 Mohawk or ov10 Bonco or Paramount Ahrlac.
Even drones with missiles could do that.
Because they were only facing off a already depleted more coast guard than navy in a narrow straight they didn't need more impressive hardware it (the Strait) funneled them in like like live stock to the slaughter.
A10 is kept for the same reason B52 is kept. Not because it's able to do its original mission and come back. But because it was adaptable to changes in how that mission is done. When it was built it was all about in thw weeds gun busting with rockets and maverick missiles. Today most of its weapons are stand off weapons it keeps the Avenger gun but it's primary modern use is soft targets that don't shoot more than an AK back. And even a F22 with a Vulcan cannon has no fear of those either as a 20mm shell goes a lot farther than a AK round.
That's why the popularity of A29 and Light attack aircraft today. They are turboprop trainers and crop dusters. Yet put in a targeting pod and mount missiles and guided rockets on the wings and put them against a row with only RPGs and AKMs and they are a very effective CAS platform.
With guided highly accurate stand off weapons the risk to the aircraft drops and there is no need to do Luke Skywalker style death star style trench runs.
Use the JDAM luke
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