Jura The idiot
General
in your scenario, the role of the USN would be to engage if "B-21s" and/or "LRASM" were downed
US F/A-XX and F-X 6th Gen Aircraft News Thread
- Thread starter Jeff Head
- Start date
F-16.net squad is on a rampage today.
Just 48 subsonic seaskimmers to take care of CSG?
If that would be so simple, b-21(and any surface fleet, including american one, by the extension) is an incredivle waste of money.
B-1B is already a wunderwaffe, right now.
Unortunately(fortunately for the US, actually), this is not how it works.
Jura The idiot
General
LOL I had thought to add a reliance on Wunderwaffe to 16 minutes ago
but decided to save it for later, if there's more The National Interest, Popular Mechanics and similar coooooooooool stuff posted
Yes Sir! but we need hardware dammit! In the interim the 5+ upgrade F-22ski would be like a hot-fudge sundae with pecans, it would really hit the spot!
Over a billion has been spent. It was spent on something. not just allocated.
I'll be the first to admit I was - in the end - wrong. In fact, I do seem to recall being the person who flagged it as the NGAD was shifting gears.
Roper is from the MDA. The MDA burns money like no tomorrow and delivers very, very badly. If I am gathering what you are saying you are also not a fan. However, please, if I am misreading your comments, by all means.
Actually, rapid prototyping is a wonderful thing. That's how they went from the vague idea of stealth to the Have Blue to the F-117, very, very quickly. Or was the F-117 a mistake?
Relative to other 4th gen aircraft, the EX will be very capable. Relative to the 5th gen...sitting duck.
The EX is Shanahan feathering his post gov nest, plain and simple. You do know where he came from, right? You do know Boeing's done that sort of thing before? You do know some folks are in prison for those actions, right?
Cite for the Chinese having problems? The Russians, I'll concede. But Beijing? After all, the US DIA thinks the J-20 will hit FOC in the next year or so.
The problem is whether its 2020 or 2024, the current NGAD will get shelved with the new administration. The Euros (!) have started their own 6th gens.
I doubt the F-22 will get more than cosmetic upgrades, tbh. I hope I'm wrong, but...more than likely, if no new platform comes along, it will be an F-35D around 2030. joy.
Turning to Brumby: the best reason to go with a new platform? range. The F-35, F-15, F-22 all have relatively short ranges without tanker support. We don't have Clarke anymore. That means we are fighting in the SCA from Guam unless its from a carrier. That means tankers will be over the SCA to support F-22s, F-35s and whatnot. That makes the vulnerable. If you could pull the tankers back to at least the Philippines, then that would be a much better position to prevent their loss. To get an F-22 with the range to do that is pretty much a new build. And if you are going to do a new build...
Oh well. I was wrong. And I think the USAF is pretty fscked.
Spot on Mr. Anzha, as I stated earlier, there are NO airframe upgrades that would justify a 6th Gen designation, 5+ definitely!
USAF is suffering from "Chickafication",,, the old heads who flew and understood fighter aircraft have been "forced out" in the case of those who defended and put their names on the line to defend F-22 production, or are retired, retiring. Projecting power requires the "tools" to do so, the brain trust that created the F-22, and forged it into the "alien bird", that's lost.
addressing the F-117, it was a good idea, with poor hardware, the airframe was a real disappointment, probably looks a lot like a "Will Roper" bird...
The F-22 is a very well integrated high performance airframe, it does everything very well, I would even buy the YF-23 5+... both great airframes, timeless in a sense....
Brumby
Major
The F-15EX is a stop gap measure to address a capacity issue and the pros and cons of it as a choice had previously been covered - extensively. Its place in the context of a future platform is not particularly relevant.
The F-22 program was truncated because it became too expensive. The F-35 was on life support at one stage but the program recovered. The development cycles for both of these programs are approximately 14 years, In contrast it was 3 years for the F-16 and about 6 for the F-18. I think the USAF do not intend to repeat the same development pathway given recent history. My sense is the USAF is avoiding a platform centric approach by design and by default given a bunch of emerging technologies. The issue is how do you capture a bunch of new technologies without being held captive to a particular platform. A distributed approach is meant to hedge technological risk and to contain cost. Will it work? This is the part where there would be greater clarity once some kind of framework is made known. Until then we are just speculating
I think this statement needs to be tested and not just simply accepted as true. The question is what capabilities and more importantly how would future technologies change the equation. For example, it is generally considered that the F-22 is more maneuverable than the F-35. Will lasers change that equation? The F-22 can fly faster but IR signature becomes an issue.
A high low mix is as much a function of cost and the prevailing threats at a moment in time. In 20-50 years, that relationship may change simply because of technology. Theoretically, a mix and match approach provides greater flexibility and agility to meet emerging threats. That said, the LCS program did not work out very well.
If there is a future platform I would bet that it would be essentially be a mini B-21.
Brumby
Major
The F-117 provided proof that stealth works as it carried a disproportionate workload during the first Iraq air campaign. Its hardware was as good as it can get in term of technological level at that time. We may very well describe the F-22 as poor hardware in 20 years time. Such is technological progress that we should put on a macro view as we discuss a future path that span decades.
The F-117 was retired because it was a poor flying machine, with limited growth potential... the F-22 will likely go down as the greatest fighter aircraft of all time Mr. Brumby, its an amazing airplane, its production truncated by rising costs, as numbers of aircraft were cut, and production was "drawn out" in order to keep the line open....
It was sacrificed because no politicians were going to benefit from further production of this amazing airplane, the F-35 survived because there was/is a lot of pork for politicians
However the F-35 is in the process of becoming an amazing airplane in its own right, with upgrades to the FCS, it has become a very capable fighter aircraft, likely only in jeopardy from an F-22.
as number's and production of the F-35 go up, prices come down, just as Jeff Head has accurately predicted..
a baby B-21 huh??? Lord I hope not???
they didn't call the F-117 the "Wobblin Gobblin" for nothing Mr. Brumby, see the airshow appearance where a light airshow "pull-off" of show center, caused the loss of an outboard wing, and the whole aircraft... bad bird!
SamuraiBlue
Captain
I don't know. Not for fuel capacity but for larger electric generation power though.
Just a thought but if you are able to generate enough electricity to power two 200kW lasers and the lasers can be related through fiber optics with 4 channels each and a turret that has a 90 degree rotating axis in all four direction at all four ends.
The result will be a bubble of 10~15Km of air denial in which no object will be able to come close to.
For a while until someone comes up with a way to defeat a high power laser this imaginary plane will be untouchable.
Brumby
Major
Why not? I believe a future dominant platform will not be built for speed or maneuverability. A mini B-21 will have the shaping for all aspect stealth; capacity for range, sufficient power for EW, ESM and EA for spectrum domination; internal bay sufficiency for long range hypersonic weapons; and lasers for WVR engagements.