US Air Force LRS-B Bomber Thread - the B-21 Raider

Abominable

Major
Registered Member
I'd like to borrow @Kalec's screenshot of the Weibo post on the B-21.
View attachment 102874

I'd like to highlight several points from the 2nd and 3rd paragraph into focus:


There are some who are rather dimissive of the B-21, claiming that the B-21s would be a toned-down version of the B-2s, similarly to how the Virginias is like to the Seawolfs.

However, I beg to differ. There are several things to consider:

First, the numbers - Unlike the prohibitively expensive B-2s, the B-21s are meant to be procured in the 100s (some in the USAF even want that number to go as high up as 200). This presents a systematic challenge to China's air defenses across the whole Pacific front (and even the Himalayan front, if the Indian government permits the passage of B-21 through Indian airspace to strike targets deep inside China's interior), as the PLA would not be dealing with only 20 stealth bombers, but more than 100 stealth bombers as we are going into the second half of the 2020s and 2030s.

Second, the design - It is clear that the intakes are designed to be much slimmer and tapered to the wings and fuselage of the B-21 compared to the B-2. Seemingly the B-21's wings are also much tapered compared to the B-2. Although we would never know the true overall design of the B-21 for at least a couple more months or years, I think it is valid to assume that such design features would enhance the stealth capability of the B-21s better than the B-2. This definitely poses a greater challenge for the PLA in detecting and hunting them before they could drop their payload.

Third, the system and technological level - Remember that the B-2s were designed using technology from the 1970s and 1980s. Compare this to the B-21s, which were designed using technologies and systems from the 2010s and 2020s. That period of technological leap should never be ignored, as the designers of the B-21 would have a much better and more powerful design and engineering tools to them compared to the designers of the B-2. Similar analogy would be like one doing graphic design using Microsoft Paint on Windows XP, and another doing graphic design using Adobe Photoshop on Windows 10.

Fourth, experience - The US has a wealth of design, engineering and operational experience of the B-2 for the past 4 decades, of which all of those can be utilized for the design and engineering processes of the B-21. Similarly, the team of designers and engineers who have worked on the B-2 can also be called upon and referenced upon for when the team of designers and engineers are working on the B-21. This is a huge bonus for Northrop Grumman and the USAF because this is something that no other country has ever possessed.

Finally, viability of cost - Don't forget that the USAF and Northrop Grumman have experience on the financial side of things as well. When claiming that B-21s are Viginias to how B-2s are Seawolfs, this question should follow: Do the Virginia-class SSNs suck? The answer is no. The Virginias are still respectable and formidable foe for the PLAN, despite being a step down compared to the Seawolfs. Therefore, the PLA hould expect and be prepared that even if the B-21s are just downgraded versions of the B-2s, they are still a pretty viable stealth platform for conducting bombing and strike operations in the Pacific.
The cost thing we've heard before. The F-35 was supposed to be the cheap counterpart to the F-22. Turns out it wasn't.

I believe there is an inherent flaw with both the F-22 and the B-2 that have caused both of them to be dropped. Maybe it's poor stealth performance, maybe it's the prohibitively expensive maintenance costs (although they haven't solved that problem with F-35 yet).
 

Broccoli

Senior Member
The cost thing we've heard before. The F-35 was supposed to be the cheap counterpart to the F-22. Turns out it wasn't.

I believe there is an inherent flaw with both the F-22 and the B-2 that have caused both of them to be dropped. Maybe it's poor stealth performance, maybe it's the prohibitively expensive maintenance costs (although they haven't solved that problem with F-35 yet).

How so? F-35 was under 75 million per plane for Finland (includes tech transfer, etc) while Eurofighter and Rafale were more expensive without tech transfer.
 

SolarWarden

Junior Member
Registered Member
The US peaked in the 80s during the cold war. Today's US designs and music are garbage compared to 80s designs and music.


Well that's because the 80's was the best decade in da whole universe you silly goose. Being a kid in San Diego in that decade was incredible especially when you were into military aviation. Every year NAS (back then it was NAS not MCAS) Miramar air show... ahhh goodtimes.
 

SolarWarden

Junior Member
Registered Member
Here's some info what was "release" about the B-21.

Vice Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Grady:

  • Said the B-21 will ensure the US Air Force’s bomber fleet remains a premier airborne extended deterrent capability.
  • Highlighted how the Raider will give American forces the ability to “penetrate and manipulate the battlefield to our advantage.”
  • Made specific mention of the B-21’s ability to integrate with U.S. allied and partner forces in future operations.
  • Said the B-21 will offer flexible deterrent and conventional strike options even in high-end contested environments.
  • Describe the Raider as helping to ensure America will have the ability to “outmaneuver” and “outpace” adversaries and maintain its “decisive edge.”
Separately ahead of the formal rollout, a source with direct knowledge of the status B-21 program to date spoke with The War Zone and other reporters. The key statements and other details they offered are as follows:

  • They described the B-21 as the most advanced stealth aircraft ever built.
  • The B-21 was designed with decades of lessons learned from the B-2 and other programs to make the aircraft capable of providing very high-end stealth capabilities reliably and economically on a daily basis.
  • The significant use of
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    allowed for rapid iterating of the design during the development process and allowed for more useful test work to be conducted before the aircraft ever flies.
  • The use of digital engineering helped enable the first test article, which was rolled out today, to be very close in design to a production-representative aircraft, helping to reduce risk. You can read our article
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  • The main role of the B-21 will be to provide strike capabilities that can penetrate through enemy air defenses at range.
  • The B-21 is designed to embody lethality, sustainability, resiliency, survivability, agility, and responsivity.
  • The B-21’s range and payload capabilities, in particular, coupled with its advanced stealthy design, are intended to offer significant advantages when it comes to penetrating or otherwise obviating enemy air defenses to successfully carry out high-volume strikes and return to base safely.
  • The B-21’s actual performance specifications remain classified.
  • The B-21’s advanced data-sharing capabilities are directly linked to its place as part of a planned family of systems and will enable it to act as ‘quarterback’ during operations.
  • The B-21 makes significant use of modular, open-architecture systems that will help speed up the integration of new and improved capabilities, especially in response to new adversary threat developments, in the future.
  • The hope is that modular, open-architecture mission systems will help ensure that the B-21 remains the most advanced stealth aircraft anywhere in the world for the next 30 to 50 years.
  • The B-21’s current design does not preclude the integration of a pilot-optional capability if the Air Force continues with its original plan to pursue that capability.
  • Advanced materials and new production processes give the B-21 a significantly higher degree of stealthiness compared to its immediate predecessor, the B-2, and make it easier
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    .
  • From an affordability perspective, they said that the B-21 program is meeting or exceeding all set “income requirements.”
  • The B-21 program is also meeting all of its current schedule requirements.
  • The aircraft’s first flight is still expected to take place in 2023, but the exact date will be dependent on how it progresses through initial testing on the ground.
  • All workers on the B-21 program had to have specific
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    security clearance.
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gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
How so? F-35 was under 75 million per plane for Finland (includes tech transfer, etc) while Eurofighter and Rafale were more expensive without tech transfer.
Let me guess. Price without engines. Only the US does that kind of accounting trick.
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Final price including weapons is more like double that.
 

Chilled_k6

Junior Member
Registered Member
There are some who are rather dimissive of the B-21, claiming that the B-21s would be a toned-down version of the B-2s, similarly to how the Virginias is like to the Seawolfs.

However, I beg to differ. There are several things to consider:

In terms of combat capabilities, there's a lot more significant advantages you can list for the B-21 over the B-2, namely 5.5 to 6th generation advantages such as future AI integration (Joint All-Domain Command and Control), and cooperation with drones. It can also act as what the Americans call BACN (Battlefield airborne communication node) and gather data from the sensors of other assets like F-35s, UAVs, satellites, and etc. to create a battlefield picture.

B-21 will also be able to fly at much higher altitudes compared to the B-2, which will really help it's standoff abilities.
 
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