US Air Force LRS-B Bomber Thread - the B-21 Raider

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
"The Obama, Lemay, Regurgitating Pigeon, Flying Money-Pit, 2-Bad (the Cold War never really ended), Boondoggle, Budgetbuster, or Another Flying Turd from Northrop Hunk Of Overpriced Under-Performing Long Delayed Useless Waste of Taxpayers Money."
Really Brat How many times did you log on? :p
 

Brumby

Major
I just wonder what the Air Force’s fallback plan is. Delay? Fewer bombers? Less advanced design? Fewer fighters? Fewer satellites? Fewer tankers? No LRSO? Fewer ICBMs? Absent a major infusion of additional money into the defense budget, the Air Force’s current modernization plan seems unsustainable.
The answer to your question.

The Air Force Asks Congress for Strategic Deterrence Fund for B-21 Bomber

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


WASHINGTON – The Air Force Secretary has asked lawmakers to consider funding a joint service "strategic deterrence" account that would pay for the Air Force’s legs of the nuclear triad – the B-21 bomber and the Ground-Based Strategic Deterrent – as well as recapitalizing the Navy’s Ohio-class ballistic submarines.

“If [there] is a strategic deterrence fund that would help or benefit one leg of the triad, I would ask for consideration that all legs of the triad be included in such an approach,” Air Force Secretary Deborah Lee James said March 16 during a House Armed Services Committee hearing.

The Navy has long sought a sea-based strategic deterrence fund, a set-aside account separate from the service’s shipbuilding budget that would pay for the SSBN(X) Ohio Replacement Submarine program. Congress in 2015 created the account, called the National Sea-Based Strategic Deterrence Fund, but appropriators have not yet funded it.

Analysts have in the past year floated the idea of fencing funding for the long-range strike bomber, now called the B-21, much as the Navy has done for the Ohio submarines. But until now the Air Force has not publicly called on Congress to set up a separate fund for the bomber or the GBSD, the replacement for the legacy intercontinental ballistic missile.

James emphasized the necessity of all three legs of the nuclear triad during the March 16 hearing.

“Each leg of the triad is a little bit different aspect to that, so the ICBMs are considered responsive, the sea-launched are considered survivable, and the bombers of course are flexible and they also are survivable because of the dispersion,” James said.

She acknowledged the tradeoffs necessitated by the tight budget environment, but urged Congress to consider funding the B-21 and the GBSD through any separate “strategic deterrence” account.

James first suggested the Air Force would ask Congress for a separate fund to pay for the entire nuclear triad during a March 7 briefing at the Pentagon. She called for a national debate on the future of the country's nuclear force.

“If there is to be a fund for nuclear modernization, it seems to me appropriate that it be for all three legs of the triad and not just for one leg of the triad. So if indeed that is the approach that is selected, it seems to me that ought to be a joint fund,” James said March 7. “I think the key question, though, is where will the money come from? And this is where we’re simply going to have to have a national debate. . . . Are we or are we not going to modernize these forces? And if we are, we must have the appropriate resources to do it.”

If the Air Force is forced to fund its two legs of the nuclear triad within the existing toplines, the service will have to make further reductions to the force and conventional modernization, she stressed.

“If we have to live within the existing toplines, this is going to create problems because here we’re talking about how many of these choices that we’ve put forth in the budget are not popular. Well, if we suddenly had to modernize the entirety of our triad within our existing toplines, think of all the reductions that would have to occur,” she said.
 
another counter-strike:
Air Force Secretary Warns of Consequences if McCain Blocks B-21

source:
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
counter-counter-strike?
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

The
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
acquisition program has encountered turbulence in recent weeks as Sen. John McCain, chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, declared: “I will not authorize a program that has a cost-plus contract.”

Justifying his position, the senator referenced his smart phone, explaining that: “Silicon Valley built the latest one of these without a cost-plus contract.” While Sen. McCain’s frustration with the military procurement system is understandable, his stated solution of turning to a fixed price contract will not deliver the bomber on time, on budget. That would probably have the opposite effect.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
used when the goods in question involve known technologies and established production methods. This is not the case with a new stealth bomber design. While the Air Force has sought to reduce risk with the B-21 program by investing $1.9 billion in technology maturation risk reduction efforts over the past few years, integrating existing systems on a new aircraft will still yield unexpected challenges. Recognizing this basic reality, the Pentagon’s top buyer Frank Kendall said it best when he concluded: “Cost plus, versus fixed price, is a red herring…the emphasis should be on matching incentives to the situation at hand instead of expecting fixed-price contracting to be a magic bullet.”

To reflect these circumstances, the Air Force structured the B-21 program in a two-phase fashion. Development, which comprises about 30 percent of the funding, is conducted using a cost-plus incentive contract. Production, which represents about 70 percent of the contract value, uses the fixed price structure advocated by Sen. McCain.

During the Engineering and Manufacturing Development (EMD) phase, contractor Northrop Grumman and the government share financial risk via a cost-plus incentive contract. This structure encourages the government to take a disciplined course when it comes to limiting requirements creep. Too many requirements changes will cause spending to increase. Air Force leaders realize this and are committed to a disciplined approach. No requirements changes have taken place for over four years—and only the Air Force Chief of Staff can approve future changes. As Gen. Mark Welsh, the current chief, explained at a recent hearing: “We can’t take our eye off this ball or it will drift like everything else has. We just can’t let it.” With the long-range strike force averaging 40 years in age, the Air Force needs this program to succeed.

The development contract gives the government significant leverage over the B-21 manufacturer. The government can penalize poor performance by cutting the company’s fee. The Air Force has also structured the program so the majority of incentives are placed toward the end of the contract to push the contractor to get the bomber into production as quickly as possible. These contractual features—combined with tight control over requirements—effectively minimize the risks of cost growth.

When the B-21 program transitions from development to production, the risks and unknowns will be greatly decreased. The focus then turns to producing a defined product in a reliable fashion—exactly the circumstances that allow the government to seek the lowest price through a fixed-cost contract. Both the contractor and the government can negotiate with confidence over a known set of factors. In fact, due to insights gathered during the development phase of the program, the government will be entering negotiations from a position of strength.

There is also another factor that needs to be weighed if anyone is seriously contemplating re-negotiating the agreed upon contract for the B-21 program solely as a fixed-price contract. Would industry be willing to participate? A bomber is not a smart phone. While it is true that both commercial firms and defense contractors share a common challenge in surmounting major technological hurdles, these actors live in radically different worlds when it comes to market scale. Apple sold over 10 million iPhone 6s their first weekend on the market. This allowed the tech giant to rapidly amortize development expenses across millions and millions of sales. Defense market space prospects never approach this scale. Northrop Grumman is forecast to build and sell just one hundred B-21s. There are no commercial or foreign markets for this aircraft. If the company is asked to invest considerable sums to surmount unexpected development challenges, the company’s financial viability could jeopardized.

Such circumstances are not hypothetical. Many fixed price defense contracts have had to be renegotiated to cost-plus because the contractor risked insolvency trying to solve development hurdles without government assistance. The
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
. Originally negotiated as a fixed-price contract, the technically challenging effort saw costs grow 200 percent and the program was delayed by six years. Similar events took place with the F-111, C-5, and C-17. Fixed price contracts were in place for failed programs like the A-12 and the Future Combat System (FCS). The reality is that given limited sales opportunities—many of which are restricted by government export regulations — the government needs to share budgetary risk to successfully develop the game-changing technologies we rely upon to keep our nation technologically ahead of our adversaries. Failing that, commercial defense firms will find little motivation to bid for new contracts and will shift their capabilities elsewhere.

There is a reason why Boeing dominates the production of commercial airliner construction in the United States. Firms like Convair, Lockheed, and McDonnell Douglas were all active in producing passenger aircraft in the decades after World War II. However, each company eventually exited the market when they were unable to realize sufficient commercial sales to offset development costs for specific designs. Planes like the Convair 880/990, McDonnell Douglas DC-10/MD-11, and Lockheed L-1011 stand as cautionary examples in this regard. Even Boeing faced precarious times in this regard. It took Boeing 12 years and over one thousand sales to recoup development costs of its pioneering 707. They repeated this experience 20 years later when bringing the 747 to market nearly put the company out of business. Although these examples are from the commercial realm, they demonstrate that firms cannot remain in a market when they are over-extended and their liabilities are not covered by their customer.

Ironically, blocking the current agreed program to renegotiate it wholly under a fixed price contract would result in significant budget growth and schedule delays. Production teams will sit idle, generating costs without delivering output, further delaying a critical capability. Contracts with suppliers will need to be re-negotiated — and costs will increase. With schedules moving to the right, additional funds will need to be invested in legacy long-range strike forces to extend their service lives adding even more cost. Such action is simply not prudent given the vital need for the B-21’s capability. At some point, the realization of effective capability needs to enter the cost-effectiveness equation.

Recognizing that America needs a healthy and viable defense industry, while also respecting fiscal discipline, it is important to address the realities regarding the two different phases of the procurement—development and production. While we all want pricing and schedule stability, history is full of examples that demonstrate it takes more than having the phrase “fixed price” in a contract to deliver such results. Defense Undersecretary Kendall had it right. We need to focus on pragmatic program execution—not contractual semantics. The B-21 program as currently structured already reflects these realities.
source:
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
"The Obama, Lemay, Regurgitating Pigeon, Flying Money-Pit, 2-Bad (the Cold War never really ended), Boondoggle, Budgetbuster, or Another Flying Turd from Northrop Hunk Of Overpriced Under-Performing Long Delayed Useless Waste of Taxpayers Money."
Really Brat How many times did you log on? :p

Well you see, the Brat has lots of active duty Air Force personnel who echo my concerns, from the expensive LRSB, to the killing of the Raptor! Sadly they will be unable to address the "chickification" of the USAF because the Air Force has become "wussified". Women in combat is fine, if they can pull their weight and that's what they want? If my daughters want to fly or anything else?? I will try to encourage them, but little girls signing up for selective service, when we maintain an all volunteer force is "STOOPID" and disgraceful.

The idea that some IDIOT, would compel my little girls to engage in hand to hand combat with a fully trained Russian or Chinese, or Islamic Radical, is So Repugnant to me that I will state "OVER MY COLD DEAD BULLET RIDDLED BODY--HELL NO!

My Moniker for the F-35 is ThunderHogge II, it will become the common vernacular as soon as they start operating this chick for real.

LRSB is the "Flying Floortile!
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Brat, I do feel we need more Raptors but we also need replacement bombers and other platforms as well. in the bomber arena the Us has the B52 which fist flew in 1952, we have the B1 from 1974 and the B2.
these carry far more bombs and open up the strike task to allow the Raptor to clear the skies. but with the proliferation of Manpads and Air denial systems from Russia and China. It's only a matter of time before we start seeing BUFFS and Bones skid across the sands with missiles in their sides. Or broken down from just the age of the Air frame. I don't see the B21 as a impediment to the fighters. I see it as another tool in the box and a bit of a long overdue final production for the B2 that may stretch beyond what the B2 could have ever done.
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
Brat, I do feel we need more Raptors but we also need replacement bombers and other platforms as well. in the bomber arena the Us has the B52 which fist flew in 1952, we have the B1 from 1974 and the B2.
these carry far more bombs and open up the strike task to allow the Raptor to clear the skies. but with the proliferation of Manpads and Air denial systems from Russia and China. It's only a matter of time before we start seeing BUFFS and Bones skid across the sands with missiles in their sides. Or broken down from just the age of the Air frame. I don't see the B21 as a impediment to the fighters. I see it as another tool in the box and a bit of a long overdue final production for the B2 that may stretch beyond what the B2 could have ever done.

Well you can't have it all, and Secretary James has asked that it be gifted to the USAF as a bit off congressional candy, oh and she doesn't want it all? give the Army and the Navy some candy as well, I'm not making this up??

Ask yourself, how has the USAF gotten along since the mid eighties on such a small fleet of bombers, the answer is that cruise missiles and fighter bombers have carried the vast majority of tonnage, if they are entertaining the notion that it will be optionally manned??? well, I'd say we need to upgrade the cruise missle, not buy another "medium bomber"?
 

Brumby

Major
What the US need is a new administration that will turn around the economy and remove the sequestration that is strangling all programs in different shape and form. Regardless of any compelling case for the F-22 v2.0 or the B21, money will be tight and less than sensible decsions will become default because of funding constrains. Economic power precedes militray power and that remains true even in the 21st century.
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
What the US need is a new administration that will turn around the economy and remove the sequestration that is strangling all programs in different shape and form.QUOTE]

Easier said than done, you need a CPC like government in order to that.
 

strehl

Junior Member
Registered Member
What the US need is a new administration that will turn around the economy and remove the sequestration that is strangling all programs in different shape and form. Regardless of any compelling case for the F-22 v2.0 or the B21, money will be tight and less than sensible decsions will become default because of funding constrains. Economic power precedes militray power and that remains true even in the 21st century.

President Bernie Sanders will fix everything. All will be moot. Politics precedes economics. Or rather it predetermines it.
 
Top