Ukrainian War Developments

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Richard Santos

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There is a point to this. However, without USSR, Ukraine would just be agrian backwaters with no industry nor technology. Collectivization was not exclusive to Ukraine, but why do they insist that it is while ignoring the fact that key positions of Soviet leadership were held by Ukrainians across multiple generations? Not to mention a significant portions of Soviet industries and education/research facilities were in Ukraine, but they ran them into the ground after USSR collapsed.
If a person’s grandfather, grand mother, great aunt and uncle all died horribly in starvation because of the russians, very few of these persons would be completely mollified if a few of their fellow countrymen attained high positions in the Russia government.

as to ukraine would be agrian backwater without the USSR, that is both highly debatable, and immaterial to the amount of outrage Soviet action embed in Ukrainian society. This is because:

1. Very few places in Europe outside the area of influence of the former USSR really are agrIan backwaters withou no Industry and technology today. Some of these parts of europe were hardly more developed in 1915, before WWI and the Soviet Union, than Ukraine. So without the USSR, why would those other areas develop but not Ukraine?

2. No country easily admits to the significance of contributions made by an much resented enemy to its own progress. Without the west China would also remain a feudal backwater. Do the Chinese then think the west did right during the opium war? Neither would the Ukrainians feel good about the Russians.
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
If a person’s grandfather, grand mother, great aunt and uncle all died horribly in starvation because of the russians, very few of these persons would be completely mollified if a few of their fellow countrymen attained high positions in the Russia government.

as to ukraine would be agrian backwater without the USSR, that is both highly debatable, and immaterial to the amount of outrage Soviet action embed in Ukrainian society. This is because:

1. Very few places in Europe outside the area of influence of the former USSR really are agrIan backwaters withou no Industry and technology today. Some of these parts of europe were hardly more developed in 1915, before WWI and the Soviet Union, than Ukraine. So without the USSR, why would those other areas develop but not Ukraine?

2. No country easily admits to the significance of contributions made by an much resented enemy to its own progress. Without the west China would also remain a feudal backwater. Do the Chinese then think the west did right during the opium war? Neither would the Ukrainians feel good about the Russians.
Ukraine was granted a ton of Soviet industry, shipbuilding and research when they went independent in 1991. Their GDP per capita used to be higher than Russia, now it is lower than Belarus and Kazakhstan. They severely mismanaged their Soviet inheritance. And they didn't even get the debt, Russia took on the entire Soviet era debt.

Did Stalin make them do that?
 

canniBUS

Junior Member
Registered Member
Ukraine was granted a ton of Soviet industry, shipbuilding and research when they went independent in 1991. Their GDP per capita used to be higher than Russia, now it is lower than Belarus and Kazakhstan. They severely mismanaged their Soviet inheritance. And they didn't even get the debt, Russia took on the entire Soviet era debt.

Did Stalin make them do that?

Stalin didn't cause the famine either, unless we want to attribute magical weather control powers to Stalin. But hey, if Kim Jong Un can bring back the dead why not let Stalin stop the rain?
 

SampanViking

The Capitalist
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Just a quick thought based on this mornings news
The big story being the fire at the Nuclear Power Station "caused by Russian shelling"
I did note the big "Elephant in the Room" question that none of the media pundits were asking:
Why did the Ukrainian army set up positions in a Nuclear Power Station and use them to launch attacks on advancing Russian Forces?
I know they are desperate for Propaganda soundbites, but that is frankly lunatic!
 

BlackWindMnt

Major
Registered Member
Stalin didn't cause the famine either, unless we want to attribute magical weather control powers to Stalin. But hey, if Kim Jong Un can bring back the dead why not let Stalin stop the rain?
People also forgot that USSR was under constant barrage and sabotaged by imperial powers. If i'm not mistaken it was Lenin or Stalin that said we need to Industrialise within x years or else we will be destroyed. It was making a blood sacrifice to give future generations a fighting chance..
 

Sardaukar20

Captain
Registered Member
Captured Javelin & Stinger.jpg

Russian forces displaying captured advanced Western weaponry from Ukraine. From left to right: FIM-92 Stinger dual-mount, NLAW, and the famous FGM-148 Javelin. Since Russia lacks top-attack fire-and-forget ATGMs, the capture of NLAW and Javelin samples provides a nice boost in reverse-engineering technology for their own domestic ATGM manufacturers. We might expect them to produce Russian versions of such systems in a few years time.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
They should already had the opportunity years ago in Syria, as some Foreign SOF there apparently bring in Korean raybolt or from Yemen.

But for some reason Russians never seem to be interested in fire and forget ATGM's
I imagine the cost might have been the main factor.

If they wanted too attack ATGMs off the shelf, there were plenty of Chinese options for years.

I do hope that one of the longer term impacts of this conflict is that the Russian military swallow their pride and but clearly superior Chinese weapons where they are desperately needed instead of trying to do everything in house themselves.
 
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