TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
British armor to be scrapped... much like how the Queen Elizabeth class was to be sold and how the Invincible class was to be sold...
Both Warrior and Challanger II have Programs to improve them. They are far from perfect but can be improved.
Rhinmetall has shown a 130mm Gun demonstrator built on the Challenger 2,
Warrior has been in testing with a 40mm gun upgrade.
The Ajax armored reconnaissance vehicles just entered service these are meant to operate with Tanks and armor.
Both Warrior and Challanger II have Programs to improve them. They are far from perfect but can be improved.
Cyber and Space are important aspects of modern warfare yet fall into the support arms not direct action. Increasingly in the theatre of operations Tanks and armor are more relevant today than they have been in the past. It’s not a question of No money it’s a question of programming. Getting the management inline and moving forward to do the work.
Rhinmetall has shown a 130mm Gun demonstrator built on the Challenger 2,
Warrior has been in testing with a 40mm gun upgrade.
The Ajax armored reconnaissance vehicles just entered service these are meant to operate with Tanks and armor.
Mr T
Senior Member
That was almost a decade ago, and it wasn't a modernisation - it was trying to build new aircraft using airframes from old planes that weren't built to a conforming standard (because before Mrs Thatcher British industry had a habit of "making things do" rather than making them well) and therefore proved far more expensive than was planned.
If the Challenger 2 is upgraded it might theoretically be sold at some point, but it sure as hell won't be thrown in the bin for an off-the-shelf purchase. There's little reason for the upgrade to go so badly wrong it needs to be scrapped.
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
British armored regime is broken into three major parts
Warrior
Although there has been reported cost overruns and three year delay on the Warrior Capability Sustainment Program. However thus far it seems to be a go. Unlike the Nimrod which was a total rebuild the majority of the WCSP is the turret and armor overhaul. The new turret with the 40mm gun and existing add on armor for a number of them with other warriors then reconfigured as recovery and APCs. Basically removal of the turret and reworking the interior. Unlike Bradley they don’t intend a full replacement until the 2040s.
Ajax
The New Ajax family of vehicles primarily in the form of the Ajax Armored recon vehicle.
Challenger II
CLEP Challanger Life Extension Program aims for a systematic upgrade. The hull of the vehicle is still sound as can be seen by other third gen MBT being updated right now the obsolescence is primarily systems not the whole. Updated Horstman suspension, modernized fire control and Commander’s sights, modernized crew stations, and retrofit with an APS. Rheinmetall additionally is shopping the MOD for a turret overhaul including either the 120mm smoothbore or 130mm smoothbore both of which would potentially extend the life of the CLEP from (Planned) 2035 life end date (2025 today) to longer.
Parallel to the CLEP is the HAAIP or Heavy Armour Automotive Improvement Programme which focuses on the automotive side of the tank and it’s common variants.
For these vehicles the biggest issues have been gun systems associated magazine, followed by engines. Every other issue is common to their equivalents abroad from Abram and Bradley to T90 and BMP3. Those other issues can be fixed in much the same way.
The main guns of the Warrior and Challanger though revolutionary when new in the long run lost ground in the long run, yet this can also be seen in their foreign peers. The scrapping of the British Armored forces would rendered the British army less effective in a great powers competition. The only currently active armored programs for the British being Ajax, (Strike Brigades) Boxer and their Multirole Vehicle program
Ajax as a replacement for Warrior might be doable, it’s based on the ASCOD2 platform which is an established IFV. However not a MBT And reconfiguring a new dedicated IFV would take more time and money. Boxer and the Strike Brigades are mechanized infantry along the same lines as Stryker BCT. MRV as indicated above are MRAPS and JLTV.
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
The UK has obligations of NATO and commitments of its own, including in support of the US but also on its own as you just indicated by the Falklands.
Next the Falklands is a very specific case point as the aim there is to deter by naval and air. The British Army as part of NATO is operating primarily in support or Eastern European security. That means vs Russian tanks.
Next the Falklands is a very specific case point as the aim there is to deter by naval and air. The British Army as part of NATO is operating primarily in support or Eastern European security. That means vs Russian tanks.
asif iqbal
Lieutenant General
Tank numbers have been decreasing with all militaries and British army is no different
It is very unlikely that UK will hold ground against another country far from home shores
what 21st warfare is about is power projection, look at Spain LHD, look at Turkey LHD, look at Australia LHD, look at Egypt LHD hell even Algeria is getting one none of these have a history of power projection
thats why UK is investing more in air and naval platforms its all about mobility
moving heavy armour around is very costly and cumbersome, Americans are doing it but thats a exception
a single Attack helicopter can take care of a entire column of tanks
Desert Storm proved that
less tanks more fighting vehicles
It is very unlikely that UK will hold ground against another country far from home shores
what 21st warfare is about is power projection, look at Spain LHD, look at Turkey LHD, look at Australia LHD, look at Egypt LHD hell even Algeria is getting one none of these have a history of power projection
thats why UK is investing more in air and naval platforms its all about mobility
moving heavy armour around is very costly and cumbersome, Americans are doing it but thats a exception
a single Attack helicopter can take care of a entire column of tanks
Desert Storm proved that
less tanks more fighting vehicles