Turkish troops invade Iraq?

Well, destroying the pivotal strategic US relationship with Turkey for the sake of ´free Kurdistan´would be an act of colossal stupidity!
At least some people in the Bush administration like Robert Gates and Condi Rice are sane enough to never let that blunder happen. Without doubt a break with Ankara would severely damage US interests throughout the middle east and central asia.
(Russian, chinese and iranian diplomats in Ankara would throw a sentimental farewell party for their american ´friends´ I guess! )

Russian, chinese and iranian diplomats in Ankara would throw a sentimental farewell party for their american ´friends´ I guess!

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They would probaly be upset because that's where they get their liquor.

I would not be suprised if the Turkish government "informed" the US first before they took any major action in Iraq against the Kurds.

FuManChu said:

Surely that would also stop Turkey invading Iraq to begin with. There's also the fact the US could just cut off its supply of ammunition - I doubt Ankara would find anyone else willing to help it out in that area.

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Turkey is one of America's BIGGEST allies my friend. They were fighting with the Americans inside the trenches of Korea back in the 50's. And the Turkish military is by far the most powerful in the region after Israel. The Turks are very good people and America is not going to want to attack Anakara just so it can protect a terrorist group. As bd said, Turkey will most likely inform the US on its actions. If there is a Turkish invasion of northern Iraq (God forbid), then we can all forget about the US being able to pacify Iraq and instead focusing on getting the hell out.

bigstick61 said:

I think the US should do what is in its own best interests. If the US does no do much or does nothing, the damage done will be out of proportion to any good recieved by far, and this we cannot afford. The other option isn't great, but at least a bit more good comes out of it than harm. It is a very difficult situation indeed, but ultimately our intersts, from our perspective, must take priority.

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US should do what's in its best interest sure...but what about Turkey? Shouldn't it too do what is in its best interests?? And I'm sure the Turkish military and government will not make US interests their 1st priority.

As many have already said, any invasion of northern iraq would destabilise the country even further, and, in terms of "a democractic and free iraq" (quoting Bush here) that point will probably be the point of no return...

I don't understand why the Us doesn't use its own troops to attack these guerillas on the Iraqi side of the border. It would solve the problem. Even if they weren't completely defeated any large obvious bases would probably be destroyed, and thus Turkey would be allowed to back down without losing face and would probably be satisfied. Considering the amount at stake here (the US losing both of its last, strongest Middle Eastern allies, the Kurds and the Turks) I think it would be prudent to move some troops into the area to undertake this sort of an operation.

But of course the Bush administration is probably treating this issue with its usual hubris, arrogantly dismissing Turkish concerns rather than actually trying to find a solution.

Finn McCool said:

I don't understand why the Us doesn't use its own troops to attack these guerillas on the Iraqi side of the border. It would solve the problem. Even if they weren't completely defeated any large obvious bases would probably be destroyed, and thus Turkey would be allowed to back down without losing face and would probably be satisfied. Considering the amount at stake here (the US losing both of its last, strongest Middle Eastern allies, the Kurds and the Turks) I think it would be prudent to move some troops into the area to undertake this sort of an operation.

But of course the Bush administration is probably treating this issue with its usual hubris, arrogantly dismissing Turkish concerns rather than actually trying to find a solution.

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Part of it is because Northern Iraq is relatively stable when compared to the rest of what's left of the country. Attacking one of the few areas that seems to have benefited from the invasion and occupation is simply bad PR.

when Turkish forces meet mr. AT-4, TOW and surplus dragons that U.S Special forces have given the peshmerga and the Huge amounts of peshmerga there are they will soon leave Iraq with the tail between their legs. remember the Kurds can field 80,000 to 120,000 men that are very skilled mountain fighters.

Turks wil have NO air support as they will be told nicely to turn around by U.S F-15 or F-16

utelore said:

when Turkish forces meet mr. AT-4, TOW and surplus dragons that U.S Special forces have given the peshmerga and the Huge amounts of peshmerga there are they will soon leave Iraq with the tail between their legs. remember the Kurds can field 80,000 to 120,000 men that are very skilled mountain fighters.

Turks wil have NO air support as they will be told nicely to turn around by U.S F-15 or F-16

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I have serious doubts the US and Turkey are going to fight. Turkey is one of America's most stalwart allies and fighting over Kurdistan isn't in US interests. The Turks do have a pretty formidable air force, one of the most powerful in the region and they're army is very advanced as well. I doubt the Turks are going for an all out invasion, most likely something along the lines of what happened during the early 90's.

I have two guys I know that served in the "north" and they tell me those kurds are ready for anything. They occupy ALL pre-war bunkers, have around 100 T-55/62 MBT, huge amounts of RPG-7, MLRS, advanced sniper systems and huge amounts of knowledge of the terrain. They have also have their own advanced training and academy's. not to mention the surplus army ATGW systems. AND MANY MANY BATTLE HARD VETS.

NOW if the turks can limit the op to just the Kurdish works party or whatever that one group is they are having problems with the turks may have a chance. BUT there is no way in Hell the turks will take Kirkuk from what I know.

The New Peshmerga Military

A Kurdish Army Peshmerga "Special Forces" Soldier places his AKM assault rifle on the ground to pose for a photograph at a river stream located in the countryside near Dohuk.Peshmerga forces fought side by side with American troops in the 2003 Iraq War in Iraqi Kurdistan. Since that time the Peshmerga have assumed full responsibility for the security of the Kurdish areas of Northern Iraq.

In early 2005 it was speculated by Newsweek magazine that Peshmerga forces could be trained by the US to take on Sunni rebels in Iraq.

In late 2004, when Arab Iraqi Police and ING (Iraqi National Guard) units in the city of Mosul collapsed in the face of an insurgent uprising, Kurdish Peshmerga battalions, who had recently been converted into ING forces, led the counter-attack alongside US military units. To this day, there are a number of Kurdish battalions of former Peshmerga in the Iraqi Army serving in Northern Iraq.

It is estimated that as of January, 2005 there were 80,000 Peshmerga fighters in Iraqi Kurdistan. A February 2005 The New York Times article mentioned that Massoud Barzani wants to retain the Peshmerga forces. The article estimates their number to be 100,000. A recent CBS News reports places their number at 175,000.

The peshmergas are an active partner in the American-led coalition in Iraq. Many peshmerga are fluent in Arabic, in contrast to foreign coalition troops, and they therefore play an important role in the Sunni triangle of Central Iraq. On the strategic level the peshmergas are ready to fight a guerrilla war in case of a Turkish or an Iranian invasion of Iraqi Kurdistan.


[edit] Current Equipment of the Peshmerga
Unlike the other militias, the Peshmerga were not prohibited by the transitional government, the Kurdish army has been formed out of the Peshmerga. They are usually armed with AKMs, RPKs (light Soviet machine guns) and DShKs (heavy Soviet machine guns). During the American-led invasion the Peshmerga captured the rest of the arms of the Iraqi forces, consisting of more than 2000 armored vehicles (some hundred of them PT-76s and a smaller number of T-55s) and an unknown number of artillery guns.

Individual Weapons
Assault Rifle
AKM (Assault Rifle - 7.62 x 39 mm)
Heckler & Koch G3 (Assault Rifle - 7.62 × 51 mm)
Submachine Gun
Heckler & Koch MP5 (Submachine - 9 × 19 mm)
Machine Gun
RPK (LMG - 7.62 x 39 mm)
PKM (GPMG - 7.62 x 54 mmR)
DShK (Heavy Machine Gun - 12.7 x 107 mm)
Sniper Rifle
SVD Dragunov (Sniper Rifle - 7.62 × 54 mmR)
M-40A1 (Sniper Rifle - 7.62 × 51 mm)
Anti-Tank Explosive
RPG-7 (rocket-propelled grenade launcher - 40 mm)
Man-Portable Air-Defence System
SA-7 Grail
Vehicles

Type-69 Q-M with plating armor reinforcement
A curious example of the so called Enigma, an Iraqi Command vehicle widely reinforced with appliqué armor, 1991
Main Battle Tank
T-54/T-55
Type 59
Type 69
Infantry Fighting Vehicle
PT-76
BMP-1 (73mm main gun, 7.62x54 coax, AT-5 ATGM, 8 passengers)
BMP-2 (30mm autocannon main gun, 7.62x54 coax, AT-5 ATGM, 7 passengers)
Armoured Personal Carrier
MT-LB (7.62x54 PKT main gun, 10 passengers)
BTR-60 (14.5x115 main gun, 7.62x54 coax, 12 passengers)
Self-Propelled Artillery
122mm 2S1 M-1974 (122mm, maximum range with regular shell; 15.3 km, rocket assisted; 21.9 km)
Towed Artillery
105mm M-56
122mm D-30 (122mm, maximum range with regular shell; 15.4 km, rocket assisted; 21.9 km )
122mm M-30
152mm D-1
Mortar
81mm M-29
60mm M-224