Get lost and go be a troll somewhere else
Turkey Military News, Reports, Data, etc.
- Thread starter Jeff Head
- Start date
They can't use the spare F-16 engines, it is simply impossible.
For once, even hypothetically using them would give the Americans the excuse to halt the supply of engines needed for the F-16 fleet, and TurAF would be unable to fly a single aircraft almost overnight...
Secondly, Kaan uses the -129E variant, which is actually used on the F-15. It's FADEC is different and the engine is specifically tuned to propel the aircraft with twin-engine configuration. These are just a few technical reasons off the top of my head; there are many more why this simply won’t work.
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Yes, go back 200 pages or so and you'll keep reading our reports about them.
I've given you evidence supporting my words and you’ll find thousands more throughout this thread, where's yours?
Just a cursory google search reveals evidence of massive use of western components even in the simplest of Turkish drones.
Lets face the reality, Turkey gets a free pass from the west because its a NATO member. So, Turkey can get away with importing a lot of critical equipment from the west. If Turkey ever shows any semblence of strategic independence, and if that supply is cut-off, Turkey's position will be worse than Iran when it comes to military technology. It takes ages to develop an independent military industrial complex.
Only US, Russia and China have fully independent Military industrial complex. Everyone else is basically dependent on the big 3.
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Well, I though there was some problems...
Generally, can you prepare the program from start to be able to do what I said? you'll pay heavy price for that and it maybe make the program more limited but it'll be some way safer.
things are built across years and in patches, there's some platforms that were made with imported components, and a a lot of this components were replaced with Turkish ones, there's turkish components that were developed and waiting to be produced widely...etc.
Look at how much turkiye was importing in the a past and compared to this day and you'll find the real truth.
Plus, the US itself have a problem to be independent and stop importing chinese components in drones, they're still using chinese rare earth...etc, also the russians are known to use western & chinese components.
Talking in this simplified and generalized way doesn't describe reality in any way.
Attached an image showing imports/exports using data from sipri from 2014 to 2022 -- I'm not the one who created it.
ARGOS II is one of the FLIR options found on Bayraktar TB-2, Bayraktar Akinci, Anka and Aksungur. These also use Wescam MX-15D as well as various indigenous optics.
Last year, Aselsan has started the mass production of ASELFLIR-500, which finally matches the performance of MX-15D; even exported it to a bunch of unnamed foreign customers. There's also the ASELFLIR-600 that is being prepared for production, equivalent to Wescam's MX-25D.
Baykar is privately owned and different in operation to other Turkish (state-owned) manufacturers in this case since they're much more flexible with payload options. They even kept receiving MX-15Ds for export customers during the Canadian Embargo of Optics on Turkey, when Aselsan's FLIRs still had inferior perfomances compared to Wescam's.
Also, every Western aligned targeting system uses GPS (there are also other targeting options in many of them), so this shows your ulterior motive in using that as an argument. Never mind though, Turkey has been developing an indigenous navigation equivalent for at least a couple of years, which has been planned to be launched into orbit starting by ~2030.
And frankly, GPS receivers are nothing major to be discussing about and many countries -including Turkey- produce them.
Aselsan has a bunch of GNC-255 equivalents and a basic Googling will show you the results.
These reports you've pulled are from the 2015-2018 era, where the Turkish military industrial complex was in a very different position to where it is today.
Any more malevolent remarks?
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The reuter's article is from 2023. Another is from 2022 and one is from 2021.
I'm sure Turkey is making tremendous progress in military technology and developing more and more components. They are doing better than most of the world.
But that doesn't change the fact that if Turkey showed any independent strategic tendency, and because of that, if the US and Europe decided to cut off Turkey in terms of military components, then Turkey's whole military industry would come to a stop.
Turkey is basically operating on easy mode because they get all the components they want from the West and don't have to worry about getting cut off. Their level of independence will only be apparent if they get cut off.
China has been cut off from foreign military tech since the Sino-Soviet split in the 1950s and had to develop everything from scratch. Russia obviously has the Soviet legacy of complete independence of military tech from the West.
Look at what happened to Huawei when the US imposed export controls on them and how much they suffered. Turkey's situation would be much worse.
Why didn't you quote my counter answers to your false claims, huh?
Do you have any idea of the environment Turkey has been navigating for the past 30 years? Turkey has often been treated like an unwanted child in NATO and (aside from a few exceptions) hasn’t even been able to import a single screw (according to the head of TEI) from its so-called ‘allies’.
Back when Turkey hadn’t yet planned to indigenously develop every subcomponent of its products, early iterations of these often had to be built with inferior materials because the necessary imports were blocked. A clear example is the TS-1400 turboshaft engine of the Gökbey helicopter, which ended up being about 50 kilograms heavier than originally planned due to these constraints.
Selçuk Bayraktar himself even quoted it and personally fact-checked the claims.
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No wonder your posts get laughed at in other threads
I'm sorry to say this but you're speaking from your ass here.
Turkey isn’t trying to be China; it’s trying to be France and spread the defence manufacturing and R&D across the entire country and industrial base.
Are you seriously comparing a regional power like Turkey to a superpower like China?
Do you have any idea of the environment Turkey has been navigating for the past 30 years? Turkey has often been treated like an unwanted child in NATO and (aside from a few exceptions) hasn’t even been able to import a single screw (according to the head of TEI) from its so-called ‘allies’.
Back when Turkey hadn’t yet planned to indigenously develop every subcomponent of its products, early iterations of these often had to be built with inferior materials because the necessary imports were blocked. A clear example is the TS-1400 turboshaft engine of the Gökbey helicopter, which ended up being about 50 kilograms heavier than originally planned due to these constraints.
And Reuters is known for accurate reporting? I remember when this was published, even serious, pessimistic people like Arda Mevlütoğlu ridiculed it for its many inaccuracies.
Selçuk Bayraktar himself even quoted it and personally fact-checked the claims.
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No wonder your posts get laughed at in other threads
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Turkiye is in easy mode?!
Man, Turkiye's mere existence in NATO is challenged. if they didn't need the corridor for the black sea and didn't want to restrict russia's movement, they'll kick it out in instant. Turkiye's maritime space will be catastrophic if they didn't have a good navy that make the west think twice before going to war, if they know they can kick turkiye's navy easily using proxies like greece they'll do it.
The F-35 program itself that turkiye was part in, the west wanted to put restrictions so that turkiye's power doesn't exist a big threshold against other western countries especially greece, so they'll limit numbers, delay deliveries, put restrictions like geo-fencing,...etc to limit turkiye's capability.
China was cut out then entered the market again in the 1990s-2000s, and they gained a lot of value from that, nevertheless they paid the price in sweet and blood. Russia itself gained a lot of value from the west, they even used western parts in their own military like aircrafts, and were buying mistral ships from france before the ukriane war.
Huawei got a setback after the USA tried to kill the company, nevertheless, Huawei survived and gave them the middle-finger afterward and it still flourishing and will have bigger role in China's technology advancement.
Again, you're simplifying & generalizing things, No one said Turkiye is a super power like US, China or Russia, they work in the best way they could and they've a lot of problems, nevertheless they're doing a lot of greet achievement for their capability.