Trade War with China

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Nutrient

Junior Member
Registered Member
Huawei Sting Offers Rare Glimpse of the U.S. Targeting a Chinese Giant

Notice that the article is on Bloomberg:

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Yes, the same Bloomberg that infamously published the "China spy chip" piece of fake news. The diamond glass article may not be a total lie, but as it's by Bloomberg, I suspect some propaganda is coming.


The unscratchable Miraj sample wasn’t just scratched; it was broken in two, and three shards of diamond glass were missing.

What if the diamond glass broke during loading testing in what is a genuine mistake by an overzealous technician.

Indeed. The young company was bragging about the strength of its diamond glass, and they are upset Huawei decided to see how strong it really was? Maybe they didn't get Huawei's business, and that is the true reason they are so upset.

And this thin evidence is all Bloomberg needs to concoct a long article lambasting Huawei? The stench of propaganda is strong here.
 

localizer

Colonel
Registered Member
Notice that the article is on Bloomberg:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Yes, the same Bloomberg that infamously published the "China spy chip" piece of fake news. The diamond glass article may not be a total lie, but as it's by Bloomberg, I suspect some propaganda is coming.






Indeed. The young company was bragging about the strength of its diamond glass, and they are upset Huawei decided to see how strong it really was? Maybe they didn't get Huawei's business, and that is the true reason they are so upset.

And this thin evidence is all Bloomberg needs to concoct a long article lambasting Huawei? The stench of propaganda is strong here.

Strategy is to post mostly anti-Chinese news with some pro-China ones. People will all pay attention only to the anti-China ones. This way you can't call them out for racism and get banned in China. Western media is expert at this.
 

Quickie

Colonel
Notice that the article is on Bloomberg:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Yes, the same Bloomberg that infamously published the "China spy chip" piece of fake news. The diamond glass article may not be a total lie, but as it's by Bloomberg, I suspect some propaganda is coming.






Indeed. The young company was bragging about the strength of its diamond glass, and they are upset Huawei decided to see how strong it really was? Maybe they didn't get Huawei's business, and that is the true reason they are so upset.

And this thin evidence is all Bloomberg needs to concoct a long article lambasting Huawei? The stench of propaganda is strong here.

Yes, it's from Bloomberg. I forgot to put the link to the article.

I really don't know what's the agenda of Bloomberg nowadays. It's supposed to provide a fair and neutral view of the state of the world's economy and financial markets, and yet every one other person they pull up on their programme has something negative to say about China. There was this lady, who had appeared on the programme for a number of times, commenting that China does not contribute to the growth of world's economy, but instead limit its growth because it exports more than it imports from the world.
 
now I read
Spotlight: Huawei rebukes U.S. ambassador's accusation, defends integrity and safety
Xinhua| 2019-02-08 05:19:36
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In one of the strongest public remarks ever, a senior representative of China's tech company Huawei on Thursday night rebutted fear-mongering against the company.

In a ballroom in Brussels packed with well over 100 guests, mostly Europeans, Huawei's envoy to the European Union institutions launched into a robust defense of the Chinese technology giant.

"Recently, Huawei has been under constant attack by some countries and politicians. We are shocked, or sometimes feel amused, by those ungrounded and senseless allegations," said Abraham Liu, Huawei's vice president for the European region and chief representative to the EU institutions.

"For example, yesterday, the U.S. ambassador to the European Union, Mr. (Gordon) Sondland, said (that) someone in Beijing (could) remotely run a certain car off the road on 5G network and kill the person that's in it. This is an insult to people's intelligence, let alone the technological experts across the world," Liu said.

"Excluding Huawei from the market doesn't mean the network is safe. For example, since Huawei's equipment is not used in the U.S. networks, is the U.S. having the most secure network? The answer is no," Liu said.

The company has an excellent cyber security record, Liu said, with its devices being approved by strict reviews by multiple regulators and operators.

Huawei's partners in Europe include big-name telecoms operators such as Deutsche Telekom, British Telecom, Vodafone, Orange, Proximus and others.

These partners "have publicly endorsed their trust in Huawei. I applaud these sensible approaches," Liu said.

"Cyber security should remain a technical issue, instead of an ideological issue. Because technical issues can always be resolved through the right solutions, while an ideological issue can not," he said.

Certain Western governments and media outlets have consistently cast doubt over Huawei's ownership and governance. Liu made it crystal clear that "Huawei is a 100 percent employee-owned private enterprise," adding that "if we want to pursue our commercial success, we must follow our own business ethics. We have never harmed the interests of any customer or nation."

Huawei has more than 12,000 employees in Europe, over 70 percent of whom are hired locally, Liu said. In 2018, the company procured goods and services worth 6.3 billion U.S. dollars from Europe.

"For Huawei, Europe has become our second home," he said, adding that "our success is Europe's success. Our loss would be Europe's loss."

"We are always willing to accept the supervision and suggestions of all European governments, customers and partners. Although Huawei has never had any serious cyber security incidents in the past, there is still room for improvement with our software engineering capabilities for example," Liu said.

Huawei has put forward an enhancement program to strengthen software engineering which will allocate 2 billion U.S. dollars within the five coming years. In addition, the company will open a cyber security center in Brussels next month.

Huawei hopes to demonstrate a more transparent way that "we are part of the solution, not part of the problem," Liu said.

"In the past 18 years, Huawei has been bringing the latest technologies, investment, research and development, partnership as well as healthy competition to Europe," he said.

"There is a famous saying that 'I never knew an early-rising, hardworking, prudent, and strictly honest man who complained of bad luck.' In Huawei, we believe the same. Complaints will not solve the issue. By working closely with our European partners, we are creating a better future for all of us," Liu said at the end of his speech, to a round of applause from the audience.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
This sounds to me like entrapment. If he knew the technology was banned from export by ITAR why did he offer it to Huawei to begin with?
Also it is not unknown for someone to destructively test a sample for the purposes described here.

A couple years ago Apple bankrupted a small company which manufactured sapphire glass. They promised to buy huge amounts of the material if the company increased their production. For this they granted them a loan. The company made massive investments in production capacity, but, just because they could not deliver quite the (ludicrous) amounts Apple demanded, Apple then not only wanted them to pay back the loan but also damages in effect bankrupting the company.

What I am hearing in this case though seems like a normal business transaction unlike Apple's.

That article was a pure hack piece.

Akhan’s chief operations officer, Carl Shurboff was a former prosecutor. So he knew full well how to push the FBI’s buttons to get them involved.

He mentioned that diamond coating was an ITAR-regulated material with defense applications and raised the possibility that the sample had been in the wrong hands.

Good example above. Also, notice how the journo didn’t do any critical analysis on the above BS. If this diamond glass was ITAR regulated, then wtf are they doing trying to market it to mobile phone firms in the first place?

Of the top 3 mobile makes, both Samsung and Huawei are foreign companies, and Apple builds its phones in China. Indeed, there are no major mobile phone companies that make their phones in the US. Even if they set up production facilities in the US, the finished phones cannot be exported either because of ITAR so it would be a complete nonstarter for this glass to be ITAR rugulated.

At most the manufacturing process might be ITAR regulated, meaning the core manufacturing tech is not allowed to be exported, but ITAR cannot apply to finished goods or the glass would be worthless to mobile phone makers.

This distinction is critical, because the ITAR is a cornerstone of the justification of the FBI and Justice Department’s involvement.

Without ITAR, it’s just a small claims damages civil case that neither the FBI or justice department have any business wasting so much taxpayer money investigating.

Now Shurboff could spin things however he wants, but the FBI are not idiots. They must also know the ITAR angle was pure BS, so why did they play along? Well there are little gems sprinkled around the piece.

FBI, which had been cultivating relationships with even the smallest American tech companies as part of a crackdown on Chinese theft of intellectual property...

The FBI specifically was trying to gather intelligence on Chinese efforts to obtain U.S. technology...

Akhan executives found themselves on regular conference calls with officials from the FBI and the U.S. Department of Justice. Taking the lead on several of these calls was David Kessler, the assistant U.S. attorney in Brooklyn who, it turned out later, would prosecute Huawei’s CFO...

Specifically note David Kessler‘s instrumental involvement. I mean it is completely inconceivable that he is on some personal crusade against Huawei, or is looking for any excluse to raid Huawei properties and seize documents to try and bulster his crown jewel case against Meng.

But what did this journo hack conclude?

It’s possible that the government will conclude there aren’t grounds for an indictmentagainst Huawei. Prosecutors also could decide that what happened to Akhan isn’t serious enough to seek charges. If that’s so, it raises a question about the broader U.S. crackdown on Huawei: Is it based on hard evidence of wrongdoing or driven by a desperation to catch the Chinese company doing something—anything—bad?

On the other hand, if the government does conclude that Akhan was attacked, that a Chinese multinational really did target a tiny Chicago company with no revenue and no customers (as of yet), it would showjust how far and wide Huawei is willing to go to steal American trade secrets.

See how he neatly placed ridiculous preconditions and completely bypassed due process to try and steer the conclusions his readers will draw.

It’s only a fishing expedition if the US government doesn’t bring charges, otherwise it ‘proves’ how evil Huawei is. Forget what the courts decide, charges being brought is enough.

Also never mind that US prosecutors are notorious for bring highly questionable charges against foreign firms in thinly veiled extortion rackets to get them to cough up huge sums of money in settlements because they would loose more in share prices to fight the charges even if they were innocent.

This is also a classic propaganda and jury tainting technique.

First, you bring up the obvious counter arguments, but frame them such as to subconsciously condition the reader to reject them. That is like a form of mental inoculation against proscribed thoughts. Get your readers to make up their minds before anyone else can properly build the counter arguments so they subconsciously dismiss the counter argument before ever giving it a fair hearing.

Just look at the near instinctive levels of resistance and even hate displayed by otherwise rational thinking people when logical counter arguments against key subjects are brought up (climate change, US partisan politics, abortion, vaccination, brexit, gun control etc) and you can see the results of such mental inoculations at work first hand.

Also, by making all this information public before any charges are brought, the journo is effectively helping to fulfil his own preconditions by maximising the chances that anyone who is called up on jury duty to hear any said charges are already highly biased and predisposed to find Huawei guilty irrespective of what evidence is presented in court.
 
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tidalwave

Senior Member
Registered Member
Two positives if no trade deal between China and US and all products go to 25% tariff hike.


1) China recession causes US recession. Economic MAD, US recession means no Trump re election teach the arrogant old fart and future wannabes a valuable lesson.

2)China can finally without restraint attack US tech companies like Intel, Micron, Broadcom, Nvidia .etc much the same way US attacks Chinese tech companies.
 
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Equation

Lieutenant General
Two positives if no trade deal between China and US and all products go to 25% tariff hike.


1) China recession causes US recession. Economic MAD, US recession means no Trump re election teach the arrogant old fart and future wannabes a valuable lesson.

2)China can finally without restraint attack US tech companies like Intel, Micron, Broadcom, Nvidia .etc much the same way US attacks Chinese tech companies.

If by China recession, you mean 6.1% GDP growth, then yes, maybe. Attacking companies and causing economic MAD are signs of weakness and desperation. They are best left to declining old powers; rising stars like China have greater sense of self-preservation and ambition than to be dragged into this pathetic puddle of mud.
 

Gatekeeper

Brigadier
Registered Member
Two positives if no trade deal between China and US and all products go to 25% tariff hike.


1) China recession causes US recession. Economic MAD, US recession means no Trump re election teach the arrogant old fart and future wannabes a valuable lesson.

2)China can finally without restraint attack US tech companies like Intel, Micron, Broadcom, Nvidia .etc much the same way US attacks Chinese tech companies.

China would not go into recession despite what the MSM says. China currently growing at over 6%. Sure. It's going to hurt and growth will slowed. But recession no. There's actually no definition for recession, but it is generally accepted to mean two consecutive quarter of negative growth. Which is highly unlikely in China's case.
However in the US. This could be a possibility as US normal growth rate is low as compares to China's at around 2 to 2.5% (I know they had higher growth last year of around 3% , but that's due to the one off stimulus introduced by Trump). Any shock in this marginal growth rate could easily takes it into negative territory.
Also the US stock exchange is very sensitive to any economic bad news.
Unlike China, companies in the US raise most of their corporate finance via the stock exchange to find investments and growth. Companies will have difficulties in raising funds if stocks are depressed due to economic shock of a full blown trade war. Leading to a vicious spiral which could lead to depression.
And don't forget most of the tools that's available to the US government (like tax cuts, quantitative easing mk 1 and 2) have already been used up.
To sum up. Trump the tariff man thought and boasted that "trade war is easy to win". his assumption is all based on the SIMPLE ideal that China export more to the US than US to China. So this equates to China is going to get hurt more than US. (A 10 grader view on economics) may well find the reality is much more complex and outcome less disirable.
 

styx

Junior Member
Registered Member
as I have already written I am Italian. Judging by the polemics between my country and France, I can not but notice a divided and selfish West in a childish way. Driven by unpresentable and incompetent leaders like Trump and his clique or Italian leaders or the British government of Brexit. Even the leaders who seem more technocratic like Macron and Merkel do not seem to have a bright future. The overall vision that appears is that it is slowly sliding towards the chaos for the USA and their allies (I hate this definition). Given the circumstances the future can only be Chinese, in the end it was right that ancient Chinese proverb "if you have an enemy do nothing, wait sitting by the river and sooner or later you will see his body pass". China will not have to do much to inherit the guidance of the world, just wait for the West to collapse.
 

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
I don't understand AKhan. They spend 90% of their time talking about diamond based semi-conductors but they have a simple screen made from synthetic diamonds? How is that an achievement? Synthetic diamonds have been made in so many forms by dozens of different companies around the world, mostly in China. Do they have a diamond based semi-conductor?

Also why is the CEO/Founder saying stupid things like diamond screens are harder and therefore tougher and more fracture resistant? This is totally incorrect and the opposite of what is true. These muppets tried to sell their stupid diamond screen (dumb idea btw and proof is in 2 years of silence from all major phone makers) to the top manufacturers and sent a sample to Huawei USA. Being a SUPER brittle material, it fractured in transport or it fractured in Huawei's testing. Huawei humoured these morons by excepting their dumb product for some trial and it failed. Also diamond screens are EASY to make! They've been easy to make for about a decade at the very least. AKhan is silent on actual science and after reviewing 2 year old material from them, it seems like their real product is a functionless screen. NOT an integrated circuit they seem to be implying with their snake oil salesman tactics.

All the proof? This company is still an unknown one after 2 years trying to market their product. No one is using their diamond screen because anyone with half a science background understands it's a dumb idea.
 
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