Trade War with China

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localizer

localizer

Colonel
Registered Member
Air Force Brat said:
So localizer, as a crop scientist, perhaps you can explain why your company is working to produce a hardier seed product, that is more disease resistant, and tolerant of difficult growing conditions, as opposed to a higher protein product at harvest....
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All desirable traits are constantly being worked on by all companies, some are harder to get right. That's all I can say. There is no conspiracy because you always have competition.

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The whole situation is screwed right now. I'll describe my management's sentiments. (While Trump targeted Chinese AI/hardware tech, China inadvertently targeted seed companies)

-Companies do not criticize countries and paint a whole country as thieves and immoral, because that's obviously not true and not what businesses do. Right now Trump is yelling "Chinese are thieves and human rights abusers" and we're going with it and saying "yea, they thieves and abuse their people, hope we get something big out of all of this or we just pissed off 1.4 billion people." You can see this pattern in all of the multinationals' comments on China IP issues. We care about US farmers, but we care more about the end goal of a 1.4 billion people market. Stockholders and revenue are the ones keeping thousands of highly valuable/educated scientists (America's crown jewels?) fed.

-We're much more worried about our peers than China. Our direct competition can actually reproduce the technology and use it in their production line without anyone knowing. China will take 10 years to catch up.

-The longer we keep on this crusade of making sure that no one steals our tech, the less the world will respect our IP and the quicker they will develop their own.

-A company cannot rely on government to protect its core technology. We sell our seeds globally and have HQs everywhere because we know that they can't easily reproduce our core technology without going through a long process, in our case 20-30 years. All multinationals are like this.

-We're essentially losing revenue for no good reason and saying "hey China, ya'll really need to catch up and make your own products because we want to make sure you never figure out ours." Case in point, China just bought Syngenta and are working on full automation and vertical farming which we think they can achieve in 10-15 years.
 
Equation

Equation

Lieutenant General
Faithlock said:
Huawei is asking for mercy from President Trump:

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"Trump is a great president. He dares to massively cut taxes, which will benefit business. "

"If they don’t want Huawei to be in some markets, we can scale down a bit. As long as we can survive and feed our employees, there’s a future for us."

"he’ll take a wait-and-see approach as to whether the U.S. leader will
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on behalf of Huawei finance chief Meng Wanzhou."

"Ren denied suggestions that Huawei aids the Chinese government in espionage"
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No company can go up against the lone superpower in this world.

So far, Chinese government's response had been rather timid. It would only invite for more attacks in the future.
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There is no such thing as mercy here.

1. Ren complimented Trump. He sees that Trump is such an object of criticism and hatred that he's desperate for compliments to the point where he invites rappers to the White House for one-on-one talks if they support him. If flattery could ever work on anyone, it's this guy.

2. Even so, Ren said again, that Huawei could "scale back" if the US didn't want it in certain markets, which reiterates that it is not a security concern but it is American fear of market competition. Besides, I believe that all the markets that Ren said he could scale back in represented the countries that have already decided against Huawei; he's not pulling out of any markets that are using Huawei and not even withdrawing bids that are being considered.

3. He mentioned again that he will wait and see for presidential intervention. The last time Trump mentioned this, it infuriated the Canadian judge who rebuked trump. I also gave Meng's lawyers another argument against extradition. He's baiting Trump to do it again.

4. This speech makes Huawei sound like a victim and those who despise Trump are more likely to side with Huawei products under the image that they can help resist Trump's bullying.

Assuming Ren is still in his right mind, he should be using these speech tactics to give his daughter the best chance possible but he should give nothing solid and still expand Huawei as aggressively as ever. It looks to me that way. But he is old. If his age makes him soft and there are signs that he is willing to compromise Huawei's real interests to save his daughter, then the company should be redirected to another member of the CCP, by force, if necessary.
 
W

weig2000

Captain
Faithlock said:
Huawei is asking for mercy from President Trump:

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"Trump is a great president. He dares to massively cut taxes, which will benefit business. "

"If they don’t want Huawei to be in some markets, we can scale down a bit. As long as we can survive and feed our employees, there’s a future for us."

"he’ll take a wait-and-see approach as to whether the U.S. leader will
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
on behalf of Huawei finance chief Meng Wanzhou."

"Ren denied suggestions that Huawei aids the Chinese government in espionage"
------------------------------------

No company can go up against the lone superpower in this world.

So far, Chinese government's response had been rather timid. It would only invite for more attacks in the future.
Click to expand...

Firstly, Huawei is NOT going against any country, superpower or not. It's the US going against Hauwei.

Secondly, Mr. Ren is NOT asking for mercy from anyone. He simply says that if any country does not want Huawei to be in, they would leave. By nature, Mr. Ren has always been paranoid about business; he even gave the famous "Is Huawei's winter faraway?" speech some years ago. He is also a great admirer of America's culture of innovation and great American companies. His statements are largest consistent with his past speeches and statements from other Huawei executives.

Lastly, at the end of the interview, he did say that Huawei is not like ZTE, and they have made huge investments in R&D over the years and it therefore is in much better shape to deal with a ZTE-like scenario. Even if some western countries were to boycott Huawei products, Huawei still has a huge domestic market and the emerging markets. China's 5G market will be by far the largest in the world.
 
Jura The idiot

Jura The idiot

General
now I read
Economic Watch: Private enterprises show great confidence in foreign trade
Xinhua| 2019-01-15 21:18:29
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China's import and export volume in 2018 rose 9.7 percent year on year to more than 30 trillion yuan (4.4 trillion U.S. dollars), a record high amid the complex circumstances mainly thanks to the country's robust ang resilient private sector.

"Private enterprises contributed more than half to China's foreign trade growth in 2018, a bright spot of China's foreign trade development," said Li Kuiwen, spokesperson of the General Administration of Customs.

This indicates the private sector's stronger presence in driving China's foreign trade.

Song Ziqiang, head of the import and export department of Kingfa Technology Co., Ltd., said his company had achieved over 10 percent growth in both imports and exports in 2018.

"In particular, our exports of biodegradable plastics, a high value-added new material, rose 117 percent year on year, accounting for about a third of such products in the European market," Song said.

As a private new material enterprise in the southern Guangdong Province, Kingfa uses more than 4 percent of the company's annual sales revenue for research and development in high-performance new materials such as special plastics and carbon fiber.

"With high-tech innovation and government support for private companies and the real economy, we are confident to realize high-quality development this year," said Song.

New trade forms and business models, including cross-border e-commerce, are showing greater vitality, according to Gu Xueming, head of the Chinese Academy of International Trade and Economic Cooperation under the Ministry of Commerce.

"The effect of China's foreign trade transformation and structural adjustment will be further demonstrated," Gu said.

The official data shows that China's total retail imports and exports via cross-border e-commerce management platforms of customs increased by 50 percent in 2018.

"Tariff cuts have attracted more overseas quality commodities to China, and consumer goods for daily use have become one of the import priorities," said Huang Hongying, vice president of Vipshop Holdings Ltd., a Chinese online discount retailer.

"The expanded imported consumer goods market brings new opportunities for e-commerce platforms. Our foreign purchases are estimated to exceed 10 billion yuan in the future," Huang said.

China's home appliance marker Galanz exported its products to more than 70 countries and regions along the Belt and Road in 2018. About 3 million microwave ovens were exported. Demands in Southeast Asia have increased significantly, according to Liang Zhaoxian, president of the company.

Domestic appliances are one of China's major export products. Under the Belt and Road Initiative, the company plans to build more branches along the routes and bring more quality products and services to customers, he said.

China's robust economy and improved services have also provided a strong impetus for foreign companies to invest in the country. More than 60,000 foreign-funded enterprises were set up in China last year, up 69.8 percent compared with 2017, according to the Ministry of Commerce.

In 2018, Guangdong, a major hub for foreign trade, attracted tens of billions of dollars of investment in petrochemical projects from Germany chemical company BASF SE and U.S. energy giant ExxonMobil. Foreign companies including Toyota, Shell and Hitachi also expanded their investment and production in the province.

"Our efforts in boosting foreign capital use and creating a better business environment have made a significant contribution to Guangdong's stable development of foreign trade," Yang Yong, deputy director of the Guangzhou Municipal Bureau of Commerce.
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F

Faithlock

New Member
Registered Member
Equation said:
There is no such thing as mercy here.

1. Ren complimented Trump. He sees that Trump is such an object of criticism and hatred that he's desperate for compliments to the point where he invites rappers to the White House for one-on-one talks if they support him. If flattery could ever work on anyone, it's this guy.

2. Even so, Ren said again, that Huawei could "scale back" if the US didn't want it in certain markets, which reiterates that it is not a security concern but it is American fear of market competition. Besides, I believe that all the markets that Ren said he could scale back in represented the countries that have already decided against Huawei; he's not pulling out of any markets that are using Huawei and not even withdrawing bids that are being considered.

3. He mentioned again that he will wait and see for presidential intervention. The last time Trump mentioned this, it infuriated the Canadian judge who rebuked trump. I also gave Meng's lawyers another argument against extradition. He's baiting Trump to do it again.

4. This speech makes Huawei sound like a victim and those who despise Trump are more likely to side with Huawei products under the image that they can help resist Trump's bullying.

Assuming Ren is still in his right mind, he should be using these speech tactics to give his daughter the best chance possible but he should give nothing solid and still expand Huawei as aggressively as ever. It looks to me that way. But he is old. If his age makes him soft and there are signs that he is willing to compromise Huawei's real interests to save his daughter, then the company should be redirected to another member of the CCP, by force, if necessary.
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No, he is not going soft. It is not his responsibility to go up against the lone superpower. It is his country's responsibility to protect her citizen and her companies.

He is asking for mercy for his daughter.

His company will survive within China and third world countries. But Huawei can't continue to take hit after hit. He is just the unfortunate visionary who is being penalized by being the most (or one of) successful company.

If his country doesn't fight back, Huawei will continue to take hit. And it won't stop at ZTE and Huawei. Other successful Chinese companies will be chopped down too.
 
Equation

Equation

Lieutenant General
Faithlock said:
No, he is not going soft. It is not his responsibility to go up against the lone superpower. It is his country's responsibility to protect her citizen and her companies.

He is asking for mercy for his daughter.

His company will survive within China and third world countries. But Huawei can't continue to take hit after hit. He is just the unfortunate visionary who is being penalized by being the most (or one of) successful company.

If his country doesn't fight back, Huawei will continue to take hit. And it won't stop at ZTE and Huawei. Other successful Chinese companies will be chopped down too.
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What does "go up against" mean? It's his responsibility to grow and expand his company. These "hits" aren't going to stop no matter what. The US must do all it can to keep Huawei out of as many markets as possible because American companies cannot compete with Huawei. American companies like AT&T are so desperate that they're putting fake 5G logos on their phones despite having no 5G capabilities. So no matter what Ren says, these challenges to Huawei will continue and Huawei can and must "take" and overcome them.

China has arrested 13 Canadians since Meng was arrested and just re-sentenced one from 15 years imprisonment to death. Short of war, I'd say this is as much fight as you can put up.

So I don't see what your point is or if you're trying to put fault on someone. I think that given these circumstances with the US still being the strongest nation in the world being driven to increasingly underhanded tactics out of desperation to keep that title, both Huawei and Beijing are responding as well as I can hope. At least I can't think of a better way. Can you?
 
F

Faithlock

New Member
Registered Member
Equation said:
What does "go up against" mean? It's his responsibility to grow and expand his company. These "hits" aren't going to stop no matter what. The US must do all it can to keep Huawei out of as many markets as possible because American companies cannot compete with Huawei. American companies like AT&T are so desperate that they're putting fake 5G logos on their phones despite having no 5G capabilities. So no matter what Ren says, these challenges to Huawei will continue and Huawei can and must "take" and overcome them.

China has arrested 13 Canadians since Meng was arrested and just re-sentenced one from 15 years imprisonment to death. Short of war, I'd say this is as much fight as you can put up.

So I don't see what your point is or if you're trying to put fault on someone. I think that given these circumstances with the US still being the strongest nation in the world being driven to increasingly underhanded tactics out of desperation to keep that title, both Huawei and Beijing are responding as well as I can hope. At least I can't think of a better way. Can you?
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Of course, I can think of a better way.

Anybody could, if they just willing to think for a few minutes.

Eventually, one got to fight back.

It is USA who takes the initiative to "kidnap" (in my mind) Meng, why is China only target Canada (I applaud China's response to Canada)? What is the response to Poland? Is Xi afraid of EU?

Just mark my words, it is not going to stop at Huawei. Other successful Chinese companies are going to suffer in the future because their country won't fight back.

Right now, Trump is doing to China how Mao Zedong had done to Soviet Union and United States. Trump is taking initiatives. He is deciding the time, the place, the when, the where, the how.

If one don't touch tiger's ass, how does he know how will the tiger behave? Well, now Trump is finding Xi had a tender ass.
 
G

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Well, you know what, the Chinese government typically thinks about how to put the screws on someone first before doing action. I would venture to say that they are considering which actions they will take with regards to Poland already.

But I will tell you one thing. According to the European Conventional on Human Rights, Poland neither has the death penalty, nor can it surrender someone to be judged in another country if they will apply a life sentence. Quite possibly, even, they cannot apply a sentence larger than the one applicable by Polish law for the same case.
 
G

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
One thing which China can do, although it will take a couple of years, is to file an appeal to the WTO against the relevant countries with regards to illegal trade barriers.
Although the USA might still ignore the resolution, as usual, it will make most other countries basically ignore USA's threat for sanctions. It also means that China can legally impose not only counter-sanctions but demand the payment of fines due to those countries breaking the WTO rules.

In the meantime the Chinese might either enact counter-sanctions, like denying the use of some technologies to Poland, which has a pretty large industrial base, or, for example, they can hit them in a more indirect way. For example, they could co-finance the expansion of the Russo-Chinese Siberian gas pipeline network, and the interconnection of the European and Asian Russian gas pipeline networks and Russian LNG projects in Asia. If Russia stops exporting that gas through Poland and it instead goes to China, then Poland will lose a lot of money in transit fees from the Yamal pipeline. But for that China needs to import like 80 bcm or more of gas.

The Chinese could also, for example, ban the export of products of Kuka machine tools, which is Chinese owned, to Poland, plus all relevant maintenance services. They could also stop importing copper from Poland.
 
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AssassinsMace

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
Let's see... The US sees China as a menace to the world. Why not attack China militarily right now? One interpretation can be that it's not a serious enough issue to start a war. But then some would call that weakness. Or one can say the US is too afraid to take on China. The US is the one complaining that China is taking advantage of the world. And that's why China doesn't need to do anything. As Americans like to charge China is getting what it wants by cheating the international system so why would China start a war? The fact is China were to do what is suggested, China would be portrayed as the aggressor. Right now Trump is seen as the aggressor. No one is running to help Canada except with words of support. I don't see anyone even the US calling for international action against China over the detention of Canadians in response to Canada's arrest of a Huawei executive for the US. Even Canada isn't taking action against China. If they don't end trade with China, Canada is the loser. Trump insults Trudeau and Trudeau gives Trump what he wants over NAFTA. That's called being weak because Canada is dependent on the US. And they also know China can take actions against Canada if he pushes it. Poland is not a good example that the world is ready to arrest Chinese all over the world for Trump. Where are all the first world countries arresting Chinese for Trump? Maybe because they don't want to suffer the retaliation doing Trump's dirty work?

No one on the China side claims China is all powerful and doesn't need anyone like Americans believe about themselves. No one claims China won't suffer in Trump's trade war. Does that mean the US is going to win? No. Apple just lost $55 billion because of bad news from China. Taiwan's TSMC just reported a $43 billion loss connected to Apple's problems. None of this is suppose to happen according to Trump's claim the US needed no one. GM is probably next to report bad news because the US is relishing a slowdown in the Chinese car market where GM makes more in China than at home.

The US is now in the Soviet Union position at the end of the Cold War. China does what it does and the US is alarmed over Made in China 2025. Demeaning stereotypes are still not enough to calm American fears. In other words for the US to counter, the US has to spend the money like the Soviet Union did than made them go bankrupt ending the Cold War. So go threatened to build bases around China... and you'll have pay money to get them. China already has a lesser military than the US and Americans are still going all bananas paranoid over it. So who's the one that will never be satisfied with the situation as it is now? If you're not satisfied with being superior, nothing will ever be satisfying meaning the US will go crazy spending money trying counter China. If all of the US's allies were on board with Trump's anti-China policies, why haven't they done anything?

Trump is claiming good progress on a trade deal with China. Does that mean China is giving up developing technology and having the US control China's future or is Trump spinning Beijing promising to buy X amount of goods from the US as a victory? All I see is spin that the US is control. If that were the case the US wouldn't be complaining about China right now.
 
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