Tiger Moms and their Kids

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
Re: Chinese Daily Photos, Videos & News of 2013!!!

They also have Dragon mums

I think you mean Tiger Mom. We had a thread about that. It got so heated I closed it.

[h=3]Why Chinese Mothers are Superior...[/h]
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BEIJING December 4, 2013 (AP)

By DIDI TANG Associated Press

As a ninth-grader, Shanghai's Li Sixin spent more than three hours on homework a night and took tutorials in math, physics and chemistry on the weekends. When she was tapped to take an exam last year given to half a million students around the world, Li breezed through it.

"I felt the test was just easy," said Li, who was a student at Shanghai Wenlai Middle School at the time and now attends high school. "The science part was harder... but I can handle that."

Those long hours focused on schoolwork — and a heavy emphasis on test-taking skills — help explain why young students like Li in China's financial hub once again dominated an international test to 15-year-olds called the Program for International Student Assessment, or PISA, coordinated by the Paris-based Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, or OECD.

Students from Hong Kong, Singapore, Taiwan, South Korea and Japan — all from Asia — were right behind.

Students in the wealthy city of Shanghai, where affluent families can afford to pay for tutors, are not representative of China overall, although they are ranked as a group alongside national averages for countries such as the United States and Japan. Still, they are indicative of education trends in China and elsewhere in Asia — societies where test results determine entrance into prestigious universities and often one's eventual career path.

Shanghai scored an average of 613 on math, as compared with the nearest rival Singapore with 573, and the global average of 494. Hong Kong ranked third in math, scoring 561, while Japan was ranked seventh and scored 536. The test is given every three years.

The results have led to hand-wringing elsewhere, including in the United States, where students failed to rank in the top 20 in any category. U.S. Education Secretary Arne Duncan called the results a "picture of educational stagnation."

In China, educators say hard work is a key to their students' impressive showing.

"They listen carefully in the class and do the homework," said Bai Bing, the headmaster of Li's school, where about 40 students were chosen to take the global test. "They respect the teachers, and do exactly the assignments that teachers ask them to do."

"And it is a tradition that the Asians pay more attention to mathematics," Bai said.

In Hong Kong, 16-year-old Rosita Or said extra tutorials can extend her school days to 8 p.m. — but she does credit them with improving her math grades in school.

"Everyone is taking them — my friends, other students are taking the tutorial class. If I do not take this tutorial class, I feel like I have missed something," Or said.

Still, Chinese educational experts are taking a more somber view in the face of the stellar achievements by their students, saying the results are at most partial and covering up shortcomings in creating well-rounded, critical thinking individuals.

"This should not be considered a pride for us, because overall it still measures one's test-taking ability. You can have the best answer for a theoretical model, but can you build a factory on a test paper?" asked Xiong Bingqi, a Shanghai-based scholar on education.

"The biggest criticism is that China's education has sacrificed everything else for test scores, such as life skills, character building, mental health, and physical health," Xiong said.
 
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bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
In my opinion Asian students are not smarter than any other students. Everyone has some measure of intelligence either high ,low or middle ground. It depends upon how a person uses their intelligence. And what many Asian students do have that gives them an edge is better parenting and school work ethic. Hench they do better in school.

Just my opinion.
 
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solarz

Brigadier
In my opinion Asian students are not smarter than any other students. Everyone has some measure of intelligence either high ,low or middle ground. It depends upon how a person uses their intelligence. And what many Asian students do have that gives them an edge is better parenting and school work ethic. Hench the do better in school.

Just my opinion.

Popeye, it's interesting that you say that, because it reflects a fundamental difference in the way western and asian (or at least, Chinese) cultures regard education.

I left China and came to Canada when I was 8 years old. I had done 2 grades of primary school in China. One of the most striking difference I experienced was how everyone in Canada kept saying how I was smart because I could whiz through the math curriculum.

It was very strange because being "smart" has a very different meaning in China. Good students in China are not considered "smart", they're considered studious and hard-working. The most common compliment is 学习好, which literally means "studies well". Whenever my mom or my teachers said I was smart, they always meant it in a way that implies I could do much better if I worked harder.

I think the western approach is flawed. "Smart" has the meaning of a trait that you are born with. When we say a kid is smart because he got good grades, we're basically telling the other kids that they might as well not bother to work harder because good grades are something you're born with. That, I think, is the fundamental reason why good students are looked down upon in the west.

On the other hand, when a student does well in China, teachers and parents always praise his or her hard work instead. There is always the message to other students that they can do just as well if they only put their minds to it.
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
Excellent post solarz. Thank you for your insight.

"Smart" has the meaning of a trait that you are born with.

I was called smart in school because I never studied and received good grades...most of the time.. I have a tremendous memory and never found a need to study.

If a class was boring to me, such as French, I did very poorly. however with English or any sort of Soical Studies and shop classes I did very well. I could have done much better if I had better study habits.

Interesting that my dad never pushed me to do better. He was a Cincinnati OH school board executive who had an doctorates in education from Fordam University NYC.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
I'm not a defender of the Tiger Mom but I believe in the counter-offensive on those who criticize. Why? Because other cultures who criticize are the ones that want to make Chinese assimilate and embrace their values. Is it because they're looking for what's best for the Chinese? No. Just like the version of soft power teased to Chinese by the very same people who criticize Tiger Moms. They're trying to trick the Chinese into believing what Chinese culture has to offer to outsiders is important like they always point to yoga from India as India's soft power. Being liked translates into some sort of power? Does that also mean if your culture has nothing others like; you're now less and deserved to be treated as less in this world? They're trying to trick people into believing begging for acceptance is power. The fact is all the power is with those that get to decide what your culture has to offer is liked.

Criticism of the Tiger Mom means they want to get rid of her. And replace her with what? An American cultural education system where their students obviously rank at the bottom of the developed world? Yeah to them education isn't important because the US is No.1 in the world. The American declining value in education is probably linked to the US's decline in position overall in this world. So why would they want Chinese to embrace their culture unless that's what they want to see happen to China.

I read an article in the Hollywood trades complaining about China again on how unfair it is doing business with China. The article pointed to how Iron Man 3 was denied co-production status which would've raised the percentage of the take Hollywood gets out of the Chinese box office. I wrote a comment examining the complaints raised in the article. I noted how does Iron Man 3 deserve co-production status when the one Chinese actor they hired to get this was seen in the global version only for a split second in the beginning and the end and had no dialog? He was essentially at the same level of any extra in the scene. A Chinese company was an investor in this movie and what did they get? The site removed my comment.

Yeah the Chinese have to invest into their culture and get nothing back at the same time. In the US, education is not just about education. That's the excuse used for attacking the Tiger Mom and deflecting from the fact America students perform so low. Like American culture embraces Chinese/Asians? If you listen to the soft power advocates… no. Americans value exclusivity because being a part of something that everyone wants but doesn't have makes those that do have it feel more important. Why does the US embrace celebrity and being famous which is also a reason why American students perform low? The nature of celebrity is there can only be as few people that are famous as possible. The more people that are famous, the more celebrity is diluted. You think they want the Chinese to embrace their culture, their values because the want to include the Chinese? No. The more people that want what they have but don’t get it makes them feel more important. That’s the menial role for the Chinese… a cheerleader for their culture. Why is it so important for others to embrace Western values? It’s because they control what is valued and who gets it.

Why do they criticize other cultures like the Tiger Mom? Like the Time article charging cheating… It’s all about superficial titles and they don’t want China having that title because it says China does a better job at education than anyone else. Meaning they’re afraid others will follow the Chinese example and not theirs.

The irony is the Tiger Mom is American… Chinese-American. When the Tiger Mom phenomenon reached China, Chinese people didn’t identify with it. They looked at it as if were foreign but they liked it anyway. Even a sub-culture of America is reviled and not celebrated as something American embraced by China. It’s still foreign to the critics because they are a small elite group of people who think they get to decide for everyone else. It’s like during the Beijing Olympics, there was an article complaining why the Chinese love Kobe Bryant and not Lance Armstrong, someone the Chinese never heard in a sport not popular in China. Shouldn’t they be just satisfied that the Chinese love an American even more than Yao Ming? It tells you more where recently I read another article in the Hollywood trades complaining that while the rest of the world was watching the Hunger Games movie as their No.1, it was in second place below Gravity in China. Gravity is an American movie and they’re still complaining. The greater irony is at the heart it’s about denying choice. Gravity is old news in the West. They’re going to hate on China just because the Chinese chose Gravity over the Hunger Games sequel defying the “norm.”
 

SteelBird

Colonel
Re: Chinese Daily Photos, Videos & News of 2013!!!

I think you mean Tiger Mom. We had a thread about that. It got so heated I closed it.

[h=3]Why Chinese Mothers are Superior...[/h]

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aquauant

Junior Member
In my opinion Asian students are not smarter than any other students. Everyone has some measure of intelligence either high ,low or middle ground. It depends upon how a person uses their intelligence. And what many Asian students do have that gives them an edge is better parenting and school work ethic. Hench they do better in school.

Just my opinion.

I think popeye is right on this one. Doing well in school does not require exceptional intelligence. It needs hard work, determination and laser-like focus. Of course, having exceptional memory and/or intelligence will definitely make things easier.
 

In4ser

Junior Member
One thing I must say about tiger Moms is they teach discipline which is one of the most important traits in life, which is a key factor to one's productivity in school or in work helping them obtain knowledge as all of them which require persistence and practice. As it was mentioned earlier, Tiger mom parenting are not necessarily more successful in producing more intelligent children. However, Knowledge and Intelligence are not one in the same and intelligence is not something one can easily gain, however a person's knowledge is limited only by the amount of information and experience one acquires through learning.

On the otherhand, Tiger moms make their children socially awkward and have low self-esteem. They don't teach their children how to love but rather impose a belief of one's duty to the family to be #1. The atypical Western mom would comfort their child when they fall and encourage them to try again, but Tiger Mom? They would mock them and punish their child for their failure, when all the child wants is to be acknowledged for hard work even though they weren't the best. In fact they may actual reduce their children's intelligence by limited their overall cognitive abilities by preventing them from fully developing under the pressure of a the helicopter parent approach.

P.S. Likely also why statistically Asians men prefer non-Asian women, they're probably traumatized by images conjured up of marrying a woman like their mom.
 
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Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
P.S. Likely also why statistically Asians men prefer non-Asian women, they're probably traumatized by images conjured up of marrying a woman like their mom.

Rofl, freud would have a field day with that claim :p
 
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