Three billion USD upgrade for PAF including air refueling tankers

DPRKUnderground said:

But why risk an aircraft ebing shot down deep into Indian airspace? I understand that it's hard to change a target with a ballistic missile, but why risk a $25M aircraft when you can do just as good a job with a missile that costs.... how much does it cost? Definitely not more than $25M.

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The answer is accuracy. Unless your target are cities, ballistic missiles are very very inaccurate. A strike aircraft carrying dumb bombs can place ordinance within approximately 100 feet from their target. This is an accuracy a ballistic missile lacks.

I agree, I think its all about flexibility and options. COnsidering that the PAF will be expending considerably in the future. A deep strike ability is vital to its air arm or any successful air arm for that matter. It also carries significant weight during an actual war scenerio as u can attack the enemy in its own territory and undertake deep penetrations to destroy enemy airfields/back-up fields that would be found deep in Indian territory, something akin to what Israel did in the 67/73 wars. No one would expect the PAF, to keep its 350+ planes idling in its own airspace and waiting for an attack(though a few squadrons naturally would put on defense/interceptn missions) but for the entire fleet this would be illogical, a first strike or pre-emptive strike using the PAF's highly motivated and skilled pilots(as attested by the famous Chuck Yeager) would have to be undertaken for a successful military campaign as its enemy fields a rather large (mostly soviet, but a few european) aircrafts numbering around 800+ aircrafts. Also, im not sure about the costs of the different beams/probes for air fuel refuelling, but considering the billion dollar investments made in the aircraft, Im sure these 'adapters' would be fractions less and without them, a significant feature of these aircrafts will be made redundant. Furthermore, the Pakistanis have recently inducted a new cruise missile and are further developing an air launched version(ALCM) but its stated range is @500 km. to penetrate farther targets, a fair amount of penetration of Indian airspace would be required prior to their actual launch. Bearing all of these in mind, I think its always better to have an option, rather than selling oneselve short.:coffee:

sumdud said:

I think the tanker part will be a problem for Pakistan: F-16s and FC-1s use different systems of refueling. I don't think the FC-1s and J-10s will be able to do mid-air refueling without buying another tanker.

It would be hard and unworthy to modify the plane so that it will have 4 probes, 2 American, 2 Chinese, and that's even if America allows for it!

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The A-310MRTT can use both boom and hose & drogue pods; so I think a single type of tanker could be acquired to fulfil the requirements of most PAF aircraft.

Besides airplanes and ballistic missiles, how about Pakistan's Babur cruise missile? It's said to have 500km range and can be deployed from land, ships, subs, and aircraft:


The Babur-2 in development is said to have improved range of 1,000 km, similiar to the Tomahawk (which some claim the Babur is based on).

Assuming if the Babur-2 is successful and the cost of production is $1 million USD per copy, for $1 billion USD you can buy 1,000 of them. That's more cost-effective than buying F-16's, though the air force would hate you for it.

adeptitus said:

Besides airplanes and ballistic missiles, how about Pakistan's Babur cruise missile? It's said to have 500km range and can be deployed from land, ships, subs, and aircraft:

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The Babur-2 in development is said to have improved range of 1,000 km, similiar to the Tomahawk (which some claim the Babur is based on).

Assuming if the Babur-2 is successful and the cost of production is $1 million USD per copy, for $1 billion USD you can buy 1,000 of them. That's more cost-effective than buying F-16's, though the air force would hate you for it.

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I know that that the air launched version of the Babur is being developed and will be revealed shortly. Do u know of any links/specs on the Babur-2? I have not heard of anything about this newer model.
WHile I also agree, that the purchase of aircraft from foreign countries is fruitless when considering where Pakistan could better spend its money, I still think that the order for the F-16's, which has been flown by the PAF for over 2 decades now, was something that plainly had to be done in lieu of the phasing out of older aircraft ,expansion of the F-16's squandron and the image associated with this aircraft throughout Pakistan!(especially the fact that it had been sanctioned/its order was cancelled) so it also had to do with proving a point! Anyhow, now that the order is in progress, I dont think further funds need ever be wasted in these areas and should instead be diverted towards upgrading and modernization programs and the further indigenization of our armed forces. And like u said, at a million dollar a piece, these advanced Babur cruise missile can pack quite a punch surgically destroying the enemy's defenses and infrastructure while avoiding any potential loss of pilots over hostile indian airspace.
P.S. do tell me about the Babur-2 if you can, also, are there any other pans in the making to? babur-3??? .:coffee:

PakTopGun said:

I know that that the air launched version of the Babur is being developed and will be revealed shortly. Do u know of any links/specs on the Babur-2? I have not heard of anything about this newer model.
WHile I also agree, that the purchase of aircraft from foreign countries is fruitless when considering where Pakistan could better spend its money, I still think that the order for the F-16's, which has been flown by the PAF for over 2 decades now, was something that plainly had to be done in lieu of the phasing out of older aircraft ,expansion of the F-16's squandron and the image associated with this aircraft throughout Pakistan!(especially the fact that it had been sanctioned/its order was cancelled) so it also had to do with proving a point! Anyhow, now that the order is in progress, I dont think further funds need ever be wasted in these areas and should instead be diverted towards upgrading and modernization programs and the further indigenization of our armed forces. And like u said, at a million dollar a piece, these advanced Babur cruise missile can pack quite a punch surgically destroying the enemy's defenses and infrastructure while avoiding any potential loss of pilots over hostile indian airspace.
P.S. do tell me about the Babur-2 if you can, also, are there any other pans in the making to? babur-3??? .:coffee:

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you guys only had the second test launch of Barbur this March. Don't you think it's a little earlier to talk about Barbur 2 and Barbur 3?