The Submarine Thread

[IDonT]

Just like the aircraft carrier thread but with ummm Subs

Here is an excellent history

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The subs were the first true stealth warship and the only once that can still operate independently. It is interesting to note that the USN has started naming them after States (Virginia class), the traditional name given to capital ships (Battleships).

 

[Scratch]

Some month in the past I've read an article somewhere on the issue of refitting some Ohio (and/or Vanguard?) based Trident II missiles with conventional warheads. Only recently I found that 24 missiles are to recieve a total of 96 warheads. It's to establish a rapid world-wide strike capability.
How far has that project come ? And wouldn't that be somewhat dangerous since all big players will have the ballistic tracks of ICBMs on their screens wich are normaly associated with nuclear warheads ?

 

[Scratch]

Latly, I was wondering what the job of a sonar man on subs, or where ever else, nowadays actually is like.
I mean I have this impression from the movies of old times were the crew member listen carefully to their earphones without even breathing
Now is it still the same today? I would imagine that all these new, high-end processors are better than the human ear in at least some areas.
So, do those people still listen to the earphones all the time and count blades and turn rates of ship screws or isn't it much more about interpreting sensor/tactical displays (waterfal screen) ?

Btw, popeye, you mentioned your son being a sonar tech on a sub ... ?

 

[Pointblank]

1. The naming of submarines to names more associated to capital ships is more in line with the capabilities submarines have. Modern SSN's are very potent anti-sub, anti-ship and land attack platforms. Just the threat of a hostile submarine operating nearby changes how you operate in a region, because submarines are very difficult to detect and can strike with long range weapons which can really ruin your day.

2. 4 Ohio class SSBN's are being converted to SSGN's, by converting 22 of the 24 Trident missile silos into Tomahawk silos of 7 missiles each silo. The other two Trident silos are being modified into equipment and diver hatches for special operations, or even the launch of UAV's. The concept is solid; the Russians had this concept working for a while and it has been very successful (culminating in the Oscar II class submarines). It is also ingenius: You don't have to build a new hull - the USN already have them in the form of 4 retiring SSBNs (surplus due to treaty and refit needs). And once the sub has been modified to carry the new mission packages, it stands ready to go out and do some damage. And should the mission change, you can easily outfit the sub with mission specific equipment. You have a platform that can launch 154 Tomahawks in a single go against a target. The only other ship that comes close to matching the Tomahawk launch capabilities is the Burke-class destroyers, and every will know you have parked such a ship right next to your coast while with the Ohio SSGN's, you don't know for sure, because it is a submarine. Pure genius. :roll:

 

[bd popeye]

Latly, I was wondering what the job of a sonar man on subs, or where ever else, nowadays actually is like.
I mean I have this impression from the movies of old times were the crew member listen carefully to their earphones without even breathing
Now is it still the same today? I would imagine that all these new, high-end processors are better than the human ear in at least some areas.
So, do those people still listen to the earphones all the time and count blades and turn rates of ship screws or isn't it much more about interpreting sensor/tactical displays (waterfal screen) ?

Btw, popeye, you mentioned your son being a sonar tech on a sub ... ?

My son is s surface sonar tech. He's not a submariner.

On USN surface ships somone is always montiring the sonar equipment when the ship is at sea. The techniques used by the USN sonar techs nowadays are quite advanced. Enough said.

Pointblank is quite correct about the USS Ohio class SSGN. Besides an CVN they are the most powerful warships in the world. 154 cruise missiles!?? Enough said!

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[Finn McCool]

Latly, I was wondering what the job of a sonar man on subs, or where ever else, nowadays actually is like.
I mean I have this impression from the movies of old times were the crew member listen carefully to their earphones without even breathing
Now is it still the same today? I would imagine that all these new, high-end processors are better than the human ear in at least some areas.
So, do those people still listen to the earphones all the time and count blades and turn rates of ship screws or isn't it much more about interpreting sensor/tactical displays (waterfal screen) ?

Btw, popeye, you mentioned your son being a sonar tech on a sub ... ?

Just to add to what Popeye said: The computer can pick out and highlight suspiscous noises from the background, but it is still necessary for a person to make decide what the computer saying and to make sure that it is not just background noise that sounds like a 25,000 ton ship coming straight towards you.

 

[BLUEJACKET]

It has been suggested (post#30) to use SSBN in ASAT role. I also read an American article several years ago proposing their use for BMD. Frankly I don't see any unsurmountable obstacles to that- with reliable communication and modified missiles any SSBN could be used as a mobile ASAT/BMD platform.
Some surface ships are testing

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system in TBMD role. Any Ideas?

 

[Scratch]

Bluejacket:

... Any Ideas?

I don't think it really makes sense. Those BMs must be tracked by a radar in the area. And the SM-3s are guided through mid-course updates if I'm correct. Now I'd like to see an Ohio with a SPY-2 HPDR on the sail. This won't happen, that means you need a different radarplatform in the area, that can communicate with that SSBN and the SMs all the time. The best place to put such a radar on at a foreign coast is a Tico, IMO. Now if it's in theater anyway, why put a SSBN there for the role.
Besides to be effective (short reaction time) the SSBN must be ready to launch all the time, meaning it must be slow and close to the surface, wich is not were an SSBN should be for long periods.
So, for ASAT perhaps, but for TBMD I see no tactical value in it.

 

[BLUEJACKET]

Where is Tico?
What you say makes sense, and in recent years the US has been working on joint ops between Navy, AF, and Army- as many other militaries including the PLA. Future SSGNs may have a few original Trident missile silos preserved for ASAT/BMD tasks- that would be the best option IMO.

 

[bd popeye]

Future SSGNs may have a few original Trident missile silos preserved for ASAT/BMD tasks- that would be the best option IMO.

That would be in violation to the START II treaty the US signed in 1992 limiting the number of SSBN the USN and other navies can have. That is why 4 of the Ohio class have/are being converted to SSGN.

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By the way the Ohio is deployed to the Pacific at this moment. Currently a crew swap just took place.

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USS Ohio Sailors Depart NBK for Historic Forward Deployed Crew Swap
Story Number: NNS070122-09
Release Date: 1/22/2007 2:01:00 PM

By Mass Communication Specialist 2nd Class (AW/NAC) Eric J. Rowley, Fleet Public Affairs Center Detachment Northwest

SILVERDALE, Wash. (NNS) -- USS Ohio (SSGN 726) (Gold) Sailors departed Naval Base Kitsap (NBK), Bangor, Jan. 21, for Pearl Harbor, Hawaii to conduct a crew swap with USS Ohio (Blue) crew.

The Gold crew gathered at NBK’s liberty center before traveling to McChord Air Force Base to catch their plane to Hawaii.

“One of the goals of the SSGN program is to keep the ship forward deployed for extended periods of time,” said Lt. Cmdr. Al Ventura, USS Ohio (Gold) executive officer. “In the future we will be doing the crew exchanges in Guam.”

This is the first time in approximately 20 years that a submarine crew has done a crew swap in this fashion.

In order to complete the crew swap, 160 Sailors from each crew must transfer more than 50 large water tight boxes of supplies, paperwork and tools of the SSGN submarine trade. Along with these shipboard items, Sailors are also accountable for their sea bags and other personal items.

This swap will test both the crews’ ability to complete a full crew swap for future swaps while the submarine remains forward deployed.

“It’s a very exciting time for us,” said Ventura. “Everything we do is basically a new experience for us, the submarine force, and the SSGN program.”

Eventually, the submarine crews will fly out to Guam and swap about every three months, and the ship will return home approximately once a year.

While the gold crew is in Hawaii for this crew swap, they will be going through a qualification process, testing the crew’s and the submarines ability to conduct different types of special operations forces (SOF) operations.

“We will be doing an evaluation of the new dry deck shelter system, and we are also getting a chance to operate the ship after not having it for three months,” said Capt. Andrew Hale, USS Ohio (Gold) commanding officer.

Though this type of crew swap is rare, some of the Sailors believe they prepared for some of the challenges they may face.

“Both the Trident Training Facility (TTF) and Commander Submarine Squadron 19 staff did a fabulous job getting us ready to take on these challenges as we go to Hawaii,” said Hale. “The level of training my crew has been exposed to has been at a much higher level than I have seen previously, when you don’t have a ship.”

Some crew members are looking forward to the opportunity to try their new technical training, while others are ready to travel.

“I’m ready to go out and do some cool stuff, and see some ports,” said Machinist’s Mate 3rd Class Erik Gribler, USS Ohio (Gold).

“I’m excited to just go do what we have been training for,” said Yeoman 2nd Class (SS) Andrew Hillman, USS Ohio (Gold) administration petty officer.