The south sea fleet

I've been wondering where are the chinese corvettes? China has a wide range of FACs but it's patrol forces are limited to the Hainan and it's derivates and next step is the Jianghu class Frigate/SRK. Where are the just around 1000 tons ASW corvettes and OPVs? or 500-700 ton missile corvettes?

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From what I have read, China certainly has the capabilities: "MYANMAR has bought two Chinese hulls for conversion into corvettes at its Sinmalaik shipyard in Yangon. The corvettes will be 75 metres long and 1,200 DWT. Guns will probably be the OtoMelara 76 mm Compact guns supplied by third parties since Italy is not permitted by European laws to sell directly to Myanmar's military regime. "

However, I have not seen China build them....is China trying to avoid the Missile Corvette? I remember I read somewhere that the Soviets pushed the theory of using missile warfare (and built extensive missile destroyers) on ships, but my memory is not as good as it once was :roll:

Latest Weyer's had also some notes about possiple light frigate to Myanmar but nothing spesific...

Also interested to know about addtional details of the OPVs sold to Thailand, but those where OPVs, not ASW corvettes...

Gollevainen said:

Latest Weyer's had also some notes about possiple light frigate to Myanmar but nothing spesific...

Also interested to know about addtional details of the OPVs sold to Thailand, but those where OPVs, not ASW corvettes...

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It could just be PLAN doctrine. The type 22s are given the role of costal defence. And then, they probably don't see the point of using something that is in the 1000 to 2000 tonne class, I guess.

I agree with you that it seems MOST of the new toys are going to the SSF.

1) Politics - Bad to have high tech stuff facing Japan and Russia...guess its better to make the impression that China does not intend to field forces that may upset the relationships with these two nations, especially Russia. Yes Russia is always happy to sell, but it may get uncomfortable if all its latest things were facing Vladavostok...

2) Taiwan - Geographically, SSF could theoretically respond to a Taiwan situation quite easily. Besides, ESF already has 4 Sovremennys lined up, each one can adequately engage Taiwanese fleet. I guess unlike SSF, ESF at least enjoys significant luxuries of air cover from land bases, ballistic missile forces facing off Taiwanese naval and air facilities, and ground stations could probably do a lot of help in terms of radar coverage of the strait.

3) SSF - Look at the South China Sea though...once deep in the sea, its quite hard to get air support out there...and the South Sea is the largest of the seas, with many claimed islands too. Operating out as far as Spratleys, these ships ought to be able to defend themselves without depending on mainland support for a long time.

4) The great PLAN experiment? - A nuclear base? three classes of new surface combatant? Many new Songs and Kilos? I guess the South Sea is the playground for PLAN to get used to deeper ocean operations, and it is not so confined...least its opened for some PLAN activity. Unlike say ESF and NSF that are easily bottlenecked by Japan and Taiwan. Geographically, a modern fleet in SSF means they won't face up to the tough winter conditions in the north, though they are battered by Typhoons. In times of war however, say Japan and Taiwanese forces launch pre-emptive or successful attacks that neutralize the NSF and ESF...at least your high tech assets in the south are much less likely to be taken out so easily. Thus it gives SSF some flexibility to respond to pre-emptive situations rather than being struck first.

It could just be PLAN doctrine. The type 22s are given the role of costal defence. And then, they probably don't see the point of using something that is in the 1000 to 2000 tonne class, I guess

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The doctrine is lacking the lightweight ASW combadants. I'm not talking about shanghai-size small boats as they are rather outdated in modern ASw enviroment but small corvettes with good sonars and decent ASW armament, with GODAG propulsion. Type 22 are good for their spesific task, but those ships are extremely specialized to perform a single task. As PLAN want's to have specialized ships for different operations, where are the ASW ships?

Golly sez;

As PLAN want's to have specialized ships for different operations, where are the ASW ships?

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News Flash! They have no deticated ASW ships. Why? Are they relying on a massive missle attack as their main weapon in any confrontation? Do their subs have some sort of unknown ASW capablity? I sure don't know. I know this. They need an deticated ASW helo. Along with a DD or Frigate/corvette deticated to ASW for any confrontation with ..well..any "nation". espically a nation with great ASW and subs...

1)
The sea way to middle east, africa (gas + oil) and australia - crossing the south-chinese sea and the indic ocean - are going more and more important for china.
In economic view its very important, to save these routes in a conflict - and so the best PLAN-ships should be there to escort chinese tankers, frighters and other trading ships in case of conflicts;
2)
The SSF is operating in the biggest area - between Mainland and Singapore, Vietnam and the Philiipinas, which includes some "controversal islands" (Spratley),
East- and Northfleet could be observed by Taiwan, Japan and SK very easy, the SSF-Neighbours like the Philippinas or Vietnam didn't have these possibilitys;
thats the best place for undetected trainee-operations:
so I think the PLAN could test carrier-operations there very easy - and undetected;
3)
In a conflict with taiwan, the taiwanese islands there - Itu Aba and Tungsha Tao - would see the first demonstrations of PLANs amphibious capactiy,

so it make much sense to concentrate the amphibious fleet in the SSF (the S. Sea Fleet can quickly be deployed to assist the E. Sea Fleet in a Taiwan scenario or the N. Sea Fleet in a Diaoyutai Islands scenario.)
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About 051 C - my 5 cents - they will be part of CBG very soon;
a modern DDG without helo is ... hm, let me say, underdeveloped ...
the 051 C's have no hangar to transport and maintain helos, and they only don_t need hangar-space, if other ships could transport these helos (KA-31 AEW which would be excellent for air-defence missile guided destroyers source: and KA-28 ASW) - and did anyone here know a better helo-transport-ship as a carrier?

Gollevainen said:

The doctrine is lacking the lightweight ASW combadants. I'm not talking about shanghai-size small boats as they are rather outdated in modern ASw enviroment but small corvettes with good sonars and decent ASW armament, with GODAG propulsion. Type 22 are good for their spesific task, but those ships are extremely specialized to perform a single task. As PLAN want's to have specialized ships for different operations, where are the ASW ships?

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I think that since the PLAN is focusing on becoming a blue water navy, they see a corvette as a bit unecessary. Nearly all other blue water navies rely on DDGs and FFGs, submarines and air assets for ASW, and therefore do not need a limited range corvette. Perhaps the PLAN does not foresee any conflict before it has moved beyond the need for such a corvette, and thus has skipped it all together.

Finn McCool said:

I think that since the PLAN is focusing on becoming a blue water navy, they see a corvette as a bit unecessary. Nearly all other blue water navies rely on DDGs and FFGs, submarines and air assets for ASW, and therefore do not need a limited range corvette. Perhaps the PLAN does not foresee any conflict before it has moved beyond the need for such a corvette, and thus has skipped it all together.

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China classifies it's ships different compared to the west. If you go by western standard the 052C is barely on par with the Horizon DDG and the German MEKO A corvette can out class all of PLAN FFGs including the new 054....

think that since the PLAN is focusing on becoming a blue water navy, they see a corvette as a bit unecessary. Nearly all other blue water navies rely on DDGs and FFGs, submarines and air assets for ASW, and therefore do not need a limited range corvette. Perhaps the PLAN does not foresee any conflict before it has moved beyond the need for such a corvette, and thus has skipped it all together.

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yeas, but then one would expect dedicated ASW destroyers or frigates, but thee isent any. Anyway, corvettes come handy when its time to repalce the vast forces of Hainan class sub-chasers and other coastal defence elements. China still has too huge coast and too far away form "fofard based defence" to overlook the coastal defences. Hopefully we begun to see some modern solutions in that field also, and not such relics like the type22, but class of of 800-1.500 ton corvette, possibly whit two variants, other as SKR/ASuW, other pure ASW and limited escort backed whit modern MCM forces of huntrs, sweepers and drones.