The Q-5, J-7, J-8 and older PLAAF aircraft

ladioussupp

ladioussupp

Junior Member
Professor Fang, chief designer of J-7BG, gave advice to Sri Lanka Air Force, user of J-7G, to shoot down rebellion Zlin Z-43. After radar looking down and acquiring target, J-7 pilot followed the advice to launch AAM immediately when the target is locked. Before taking his advice, Sri Lanka air force thought Chinese AAM needs more time to steadily aim at the target than Western counterpart. Hence few chances to achieve air-to-air victory were missed.

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J

jobjed

Captain
ladioussupp said:
Professor Fang, chief designer of J-7BG, gave advice to Sri Lanka Air Force, user of J-7G, to shoot down rebellion Zlin Z-43. After radar looking down and acquiring target, J-7 pilot followed the advice to launch AAM immediately when the target is locked. Before taking his advice, Sri Lanka air force thought Chinese AAM needs more time to steadily aim at the target than Western counterpart. Hence few chances to achieve air-to-air victory were missed.

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Here's a more detailed translation.

斯方飞行员如实回答：西方同类产品的瞄准锁定时间很长，估计你们中国的更长。听到这个答案，方锦星微微一笑，他一边安慰飞行员一边解释使用方法：“你要对我们的飞机有信心、对中国头瞄和导弹有信心！只要头瞄光圈套住敌机，你就按按钮发射导弹，不用等。保证击落！”

Sri Lankan J-7G's had consistently failed to shoot down Tamil Tiger aircraft during the 2007-2009 conflict so the Sri Lankan Air Force began to question the performance of the J-7G's. Chief designer Fang was brought in to advise the Sri Lankan Air Force on how to operate the J-7G's and also to explain the failures to shoot down enemy aircraft. During a lesson given by Fang to Sri Lankan pilots, Fang asked why the pilots had hesitated to fire even though the HMS was locked onto the enemy aircraft. The pilots responded with "Western missiles takes longer to aim, Chinese missiles would be even longer, right?" Fang responded that the pilots must have confidence in the aircraft and the equipment; once the HMS successfully locks on, press the fire button immediately. Less than a year later, J-7G's were scrambled to intercept unidentified aircraft. One of them was a Zlin Z 43 aircraft flying at 500m altitude. The J-7G pilot fired as soon as the HMS locked on and thus the Sri Lankan Air Force claimed its first air to air kill.
 
plawolf

plawolf

Lieutenant General
jobjed said:
Here's a more detailed translation.

斯方飞行员如实回答：西方同类产品的瞄准锁定时间很长，估计你们中国的更长。听到这个答案，方锦星微微一笑，他一边安慰飞行员一边解释使用方法：“你要对我们的飞机有信心、对中国头瞄和导弹有信心！只要头瞄光圈套住敌机，你就按按钮发射导弹，不用等。保证击落！”

Sri Lankan J-7G's had consistently failed to shoot down Tamil Tiger aircraft during the 2007-2009 conflict so the Sri Lankan Air Force began to question the performance of the J-7G's. Chief designer Fang was brought in to advise the Sri Lankan Air Force on how to operate the J-7G's and also to explain the failures to shoot down enemy aircraft. During a lesson given by Fang to Sri Lankan pilots, Fang asked why the pilots had hesitated to fire even though the HMS was locked onto the enemy aircraft. The pilots responded with "Western missiles takes longer to aim, Chinese missiles would be even longer, right?" Fang responded that the pilots must have confidence in the aircraft and the equipment; once the HMS successfully locks on, press the fire button immediately. Less than a year later, J-7G's were scrambled to intercept unidentified aircraft. One of them was a Zlin Z 43 aircraft flying at 500m altitude. The J-7G pilot fired as soon as the HMS locked on and thus the Sri Lankan Air Force claimed its first air to air kill.
Click to expand...

Real facepalm moment for the Sri Lankan Air Force that, I guess they should just be greatful that the enemy only had unarmed (as far as air to air weapons are concerned) planes so they didn't actually loose any fighters and pilots as a result of such a groundless and silly assumption.

The whole point of a lock on tone is to tell the pilot the missile is locked on and can be launched. What else were they expecting or waiting for? This illustrates the importance of live fire training for pilots.

On the bright side, this article does confirm that HMS is operational on J/F7Gs even though I personally have never seen a picture of a J/F7 pilot wearing one, and it also suggest that Chinese IRAAMs (PL8/9 I would expect) have a faster lock on performance than whatever western IRAAMs the Sri Lankan Air Force had experience with.
 
plawolf

plawolf

Lieutenant General
Lion said:
Do the western HMS will too fail to hit the target if the pilot delay firing it?
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The full article explained that because of the hesitation, and the big speed difference between the J7 and its prey, the Sri Lankan pilots overshot before they fired, and the opportunity was lost, so presumably the J7s were unable to reacquire the target to get another bite at the cherry.

Although to be fair to the Sri Lankan pilots, the J7s were rushed into service to defend against the Tiger bombing attacks, so they have a good excuse to not be familiar with their planes since they were literally brand new when they were pressed into frontline service, so its not like the Sri Lankan pilots had all that long to train on the type before they were scrambles to engage enemy bougies.
 
Quickie

Quickie

Colonel
jobjed said:
Wouldn't every weapon system in the world fail to hit if you don't press the fire button?
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I suppose if the pilot waits too long and the target become unlocked, the pilot should know immediately by audio or visual indications.
 
kwaigonegin

kwaigonegin

Colonel
jobjed said:
Here's a more detailed translation.

斯方飞行员如实回答：西方同类产品的瞄准锁定时间很长，估计你们中国的更长。听到这个答案，方锦星微微一笑，他一边安慰飞行员一边解释使用方法：“你要对我们的飞机有信心、对中国头瞄和导弹有信心！只要头瞄光圈套住敌机，你就按按钮发射导弹，不用等。保证击落！”

Sri Lankan J-7G's had consistently failed to shoot down Tamil Tiger aircraft during the 2007-2009 conflict so the Sri Lankan Air Force began to question the performance of the J-7G's. Chief designer Fang was brought in to advise the Sri Lankan Air Force on how to operate the J-7G's and also to explain the failures to shoot down enemy aircraft. During a lesson given by Fang to Sri Lankan pilots, Fang asked why the pilots had hesitated to fire even though the HMS was locked onto the enemy aircraft. The pilots responded with "Western missiles takes longer to aim, Chinese missiles would be even longer, right?" Fang responded that the pilots must have confidence in the aircraft and the equipment; once the HMS successfully locks on, press the fire button immediately. Less than a year later, J-7G's were scrambled to intercept unidentified aircraft. One of them was a Zlin Z 43 aircraft flying at 500m altitude. The J-7G pilot fired as soon as the HMS locked on and thus the Sri Lankan Air Force claimed its first air to air kill.
Click to expand...

The Tamil tigers don't exactly fly any modern fighters or even jets for that matter. Are AAMs even necessary? Can't they just shoot them down with just guns or do the Sri Lanka pilots just throw up their hands in frustration and go home after the initial lockon disengaged?
 
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