Just as I have said it. Also a reason why Imperial Russia signed the Treaty of Nerchinsk giving up Russian claims to the area forming the 1850s border.
the northeast doctrine
- Thread starter eldarlmari
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Just as I have said it. Also a reason why Imperial Russia signed the Treaty of Nerchinsk giving up Russian claims to the area forming the 1850s border.
MiG-29
Banned Idiot
Nuclear powesr won`t go to war, no nation will survive and win.
China is not going to take any russian territory any time in the future, Russia consider its nuclear arsenal its more important weapon systems, and is continually upgrading it.
What is possible is Chinese immigrants change the demografic and ethnic composition of Russia, however that also is hard Russia is full of skinheads, it would be similar to say Europe will turn muslim or the USA mexican, it is impossible to do it, you always are going to have conflict unless the blending is gradually and peacefully.
Nations only blend with time, perhaps Russia will accept some Chinese immmigrants and sooner or later siberia will look more like khazakhaztan, a hybrid nation of russian and Chinese origin.
The same will happen in Texas where Mexican people will sooner or later blend with the american population, creating a hybrid nation of mexican-american roots
Think Siberia will sooner or later become a Russian-east asian region, where the ethnicities of Russia, China and Korea will blend, but this will be gradually and peacefully and as long as Russia accepts those immigrants.
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Red___Sword
Junior Member
Hahahaha, and I though we should talk about HISTORY... How the world spins these days ah?
Look, back to 60s and 70s, when first operationally "good enough" RPG of China that can DISABLE (not total destruction) Russian's workhorse MBTs like T62, that's as late as 1969; and when China's armour army groups were as good as non-existing; and forget about joint-operations between ground force and air force when Chinese army have had hard times to keep artillery and advancing forces tightly cordinated... China is the one scared and planning of how to continue to fight effectively after the CMC has evacuvated Beijing, AND THEY PLAN IT FOR REAL...
Now, sinophobia did its job to scare everyone to chill their bones and Russia, who effectively a semi-ally with China, which the offical terms is “全面战略合作伙伴关系” Total (or "Full Scale") strategic cooperative parternership, showing sugguestion (by forum threads like this one, across the globe), that "it is high time to plan for PLA invasion scenario".
I don't know, ground battle, esp ground battle between superpowers (both are "no more" or "not yet", though) and involves the sovereignty soil of both superpowers, one thing is for sure - the war is not going to stop by drawing a line between each defacto cotrolled ground and call it a truce.
So, if we are sober that "push inland" would not happen without a total war that guarantees full-scale nuclear exchange - which means not going to happen in today's foreseenable human ethic standard; then why bother (esp, the Russians soberly bothers) that "The Chinese are coming!" hype?
We do have this little thing called diplomacy successfully settled (CLARIFIED) all the China-Russia border issues - despite how pissed off each's domestic vox populi are outcrying about, don't we?
Look, back to 60s and 70s, when first operationally "good enough" RPG of China that can DISABLE (not total destruction) Russian's workhorse MBTs like T62, that's as late as 1969; and when China's armour army groups were as good as non-existing; and forget about joint-operations between ground force and air force when Chinese army have had hard times to keep artillery and advancing forces tightly cordinated... China is the one scared and planning of how to continue to fight effectively after the CMC has evacuvated Beijing, AND THEY PLAN IT FOR REAL...
Now, sinophobia did its job to scare everyone to chill their bones and Russia, who effectively a semi-ally with China, which the offical terms is “全面战略合作伙伴关系” Total (or "Full Scale") strategic cooperative parternership, showing sugguestion (by forum threads like this one, across the globe), that "it is high time to plan for PLA invasion scenario".
I don't know, ground battle, esp ground battle between superpowers (both are "no more" or "not yet", though) and involves the sovereignty soil of both superpowers, one thing is for sure - the war is not going to stop by drawing a line between each defacto cotrolled ground and call it a truce.
So, if we are sober that "push inland" would not happen without a total war that guarantees full-scale nuclear exchange - which means not going to happen in today's foreseenable human ethic standard; then why bother (esp, the Russians soberly bothers) that "The Chinese are coming!" hype?
We do have this little thing called diplomacy successfully settled (CLARIFIED) all the China-Russia border issues - despite how pissed off each's domestic vox populi are outcrying about, don't we?
Kurt
Junior Member
Not exactly. The Bering Strait is a defensible chokepoint where enemy submarine incursions can effectively be blocked by a localized naval minefield, submarine, aircraft and surface vessel build-up. Using the North West passage or the GIUK gap to circumvent this blockade is foolish because these well guarded waters will report localization and movement out of pure egocentric motives to the Russians to have a welcome party ready. In a m ultipolar world all smaller powers profit if the major power China is going to be faces a conflict that eats away lots of her power. similarly Indian intelligence is likely to use their good regional network to supply the Russians with information with the hope to achieve their own ends through these means and reconquer their Chinese occupied territories (Note that India doesn't want to reach an agreement with China in this issue. India is really tough and hot headed in territorial affairs). So China is surrounded by traitors with good sensors to give the Russians target information and this way serve their own enhanced regional power.
Concerning the Russians abilities in winter, China can not compete on an equal level in the snow because Russia has more snow mobile assets to recruit that enormously speed maneuver and supply as soon as the landscape is snow covered with hardly any Russian not knowing how to use this environment since childhood. So whatever happens due to the first wave, the Russians have the winter to strike back.
You might have missed it, but Russia has a strong Asian population already in place in Siberia who have shaped the image of Russian snipers because they use guns for a living. However, these Asians don't have fond memories of a past of Chinese raiding so far north for women. The current demographic development could rekindle that memory, provide lots of well-trained volunteers in an armed conflict. I don't want to be in the shoes of a Chinese soldiers who has to face all these snipers, especially in a winter setting with extreme mobility added to their deadliness.
Sorry, but I want to stop the discussion with you here. I have nothing of substance to contribute. All being said it's insane from a military perspective to start a war with a great power over former MANCHU lands. It's nuts because even a lingering desire for such a territorial grab undermines Chinese global prospects. China and Russia have sealed a treaty to not again exchange gunfire over that issue that is claimed to be settled for once and for all. Russia is even crucial in supplying China with military hardware and know-how. If China decides to attack Russia for this strip of land none will put any faith in any Chinese contract or proclamation ever made because such an act by China would be betrayal of their most important ally. Well, if you think China can conquer the world try it, but don't complain if others fight back and nuke you.
Sorry, I think you should pay more attention to your history, China raiding north for women? which dynasty? China is not the mongols nor the Jurkans.
Note that this discussion is a hypothetical war.
History have shown that the only successful invasion of Russia is launched in the middle of the winter, If I am China, I would do the same. I would let the Russian reinforcements get boggled down in the spring muck. By summer, the defensive positions will be complete.
Do you know anything about Chinese gun culture? a few years back, I had seen local northern Chinese persons hunt flying birds with a 0.22 rifle. Mentioning Russian sharpshooter culture is meaningless in this context.
Also, what Russian snow mobile assets are there that can travel 3000 miles without major supply deports which will most likely be destroyed? The transiberian railway is vital to Russia's ability to hold onto outer Manchuria.
Also, what make you think India will help Russia? It is just as easy to say that North Korea will send troop to help China as Russia still occupy some traditional Korean lands?
Base your arguments on facts not assumptions.
I think Kurt may have just read too much of that Tom Clancy "Bear and Dragon" novel one too many time,
Like Red Sword said.
China and Russia has no reason to go to war, China has entered almost a semi-alliance with Russia (which China never does historically with anyoneesle. ) and even look to upgrade its relationship further.
there is no outstanding territorial dispute now. and more convergence of interest than ever before.
In a way Russia is banking on a strong china to support its pacific interest. Likewise China is banking on Russia to support its interest west of Ural. Just look at their close coordination around the Kuril Island this year.
Like Red Sword said.
China and Russia has no reason to go to war, China has entered almost a semi-alliance with Russia (which China never does historically with anyoneesle. ) and even look to upgrade its relationship further.
there is no outstanding territorial dispute now. and more convergence of interest than ever before.
In a way Russia is banking on a strong china to support its pacific interest. Likewise China is banking on Russia to support its interest west of Ural. Just look at their close coordination around the Kuril Island this year.
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