The Navy of Brazil

F40Racer said:

The Brazilian navy is an elite club. Currently there are only two countries with large carriers (USA and Russia), and two countries with medium carriers (France, Brazil). The rest of the blue water navies have light carriers. The Type-22 frigates and Niteroi-class frigates are not the most modern, but they are still very capable ships.

Lets discuss the equipments and capabilities of Brazil's navy here.

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In addition to the US and Russia, and France and Brazil, the Indians (Viraat), the Spanish (Juan Carlos) and the Italians (Cavour) all have carriers that displace within a few thousand tons of the Sao Paulo...and they are more capable and better defended.

Within a few years China and the UK will be added to that group having larger carriers as well...although I would bet on a carrier group centered around a UK Invinsible class carrier right now over one centered on the Sao Paulo if it came to comparing the two.

Jeff Head said:

In addition to the US and Russia, and France and Brazil, the Indians (Viraat), the Spanish (Juan Carlos) and the Italians (Cavour) all have carriers that displace within a few thousand tons of the Sao Paulo...and they are more capable and better defended.

Within a few years China and the UK will be added to that group having larger carriers as well...although I would bet on a carrier group centered around a UK Invisible class carrier right now over one centered on the Sao Paulo if it came to comparing the two.

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I would damn bet on the Brits if the carrier was invisible as well! Though it might be a challenge for the pilots when they are trying to fly back home! :rofl:

Anyways, I would argue that due to the force structure of Brazil's navy, a carrier is not necessary for them; the money spent on buying and operating a carrier would have been better suited for buying more potent surface warships, and maybe an amphib.

Pointblank said:

I would damn bet on the Brits if the carrier was invisible as well! Though it might be a challenge for the pilots when they are trying to fly back home! :rofl:

Anyways, I would argue that due to the force structure of Brazil's navy, a carrier is not necessary for them; the money spent on buying and operating a carrier would have been better suited for buying more potent surface warships, and maybe an amphib.

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Dang...a simple typo can make a world of difference in meaning.

Just the same, I believe an Invincible class and its escorts and probale SSN acompaniment would locate the Sao Paulo well before the Sao Paulo group found the UK group.

Jeff Head said:

Dang...a simple typo can make a world of difference in meaning.

Just the same, I believe an Invinsible class and its escorts and probale SSN acompaniment would locate the Sao Paulo well before the Sao Paulo group found the UK group.

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Not to mention the fact that the FAA's Sea Harriers would send the poor old A-4s of the Sao Paolo down to the deck in pieces quite quickly, now that the are armed with AIM-120s and sensor equipment has improved since the Falklands.

Invincible?

FriedRiceNSpice said:

Invincible?

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Yes...sometimes when it rains, it pours.

planeman said:

The San Paulo carrier is grossly under-defended and the fleet lacks any credible area-air defence capability. To put that into context here's something I made earlier. San Paulo is at the bottom middle (Click to enlarge)
[qimg]http://i33.tinypic.com/1z6blf6.jpg[/qimg]

The following analysis is slightly out of date because I hadn't confirmed the Mistral SAMs refitted on the San Paulo but that doesn't change the wider picture very much.

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Thanks for the info. I guess you get what you paid for. India paid more than $2 billion for the INS Vikiramaditya. Brazil paid a lot less than that for the Sao Paulo.

Jeff Head said:

In addition to the US and Russia, and France and Brazil, the Indians (Viraat), the Spanish (Juan Carlos) and the Italians (Cavour) all have carriers that displace within a few thousand tons of the Sao Paulo...and they are more capable and better defended.

Within a few years China and the UK will be added to that group having larger carriers as well...although I would bet on a carrier group centered around a UK Invinsible class carrier right now over one centered on the Sao Paulo if it came to comparing the two.

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I thought Sao Paulo would be almost as capable as the modified Gorshkov (aka Vikramaditya)the Russians are building for India, considering Sao Paulo has catapults and Gorshkov doesn't. I guess I'm wrong.

F40Racer said:

I thought Sao Paulo would be almost capable as the modified Gorshkov (aka Vikramaditya)the Russians are building for India, considering Sao Paulo has catapults and Gorshkov doesn't. I guess I'm wrong.

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If the Brazillians get a better aircraft, some better missile defense, and better escorts, she would be.

The Indians will have decently outfitted Mig-29s, and capable defensive missiles along with much more capable escorts. That makes all the difference.

Actually, the Sao Paulo is not a bad carrier at all...she needs the other equipment to go along with it so she can 1) project power in a modern combat environment, and 2) be adequately defended while doing so.

If the Brazillians picked up a couple of more capable DDGs for ASW duties, and a couple of tstrong area defence AAW DDGs, or multi-mission DDGs that can do both...and if they then coupled that with a squadron better attack aircraft and a squadron of decent fleet defense aircraft, and maybe added two or three E2C Hawkeyes, or even some old E-1B Tracers, then the Sao Paulo would be much more effective.

Finn McCool said:

Not to mention the fact that the FAA's Sea Harriers would send the poor old A-4s of the Sao Paolo down to the deck in pieces quite quickly, now that the are armed with AIM-120s and sensor equipment has improved since the Falklands.

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Minor point but Sea Harrier is retired. Now RAF/FAA deploy Harrier GR9s to the carriers and only have Sidewinders for defence, much like the Brazilians. Where the Brits have a huge advantage is in the quality of the escorts.