The Kashmir conflict 2025.

siegecrossbow

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
00CuriousObserver said:
Nah, I get why they're saying this but I'm not buying it. PLA watchers like 洋务先驱张之洞 have said strongly that it is indeed PL-15

In fact I'm pretty sure 洋务先驱张之洞 is a China MIC insider
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He is not but is pretty close to the folks inside the inner circle. He got to interview the commander of the Johnson South Reef skirmish once.

But he is generally more balanced. Guys like Otter often go off the deep end when things don’t go according to plan.
 
S

SinoAmericanCW

Junior Member
Registered Member
Zichan said:
At the same time, they pointed out that the performance of HQ-9 was possibly not up to par, as Pakistani GBAD proved itself incapable of intercepting French SCALP missiles which appear to have inflicted significant damage on Pakistani GBAD:

“On the other side of the ledger, the success of Indian missiles — many of them reportedly long-range French SCALP missiles — in finding their targets showed both the weakness and paucity of Pakistani aerial defences.

Pakistan is known to deploy China’s HQ-9 systems, which are a generation behind the sophistication of Russian S-400s and are at the top-end of India’s inventory.

“The fact is that even at a time of extreme high alert, Indian missiles penetrated Pakistani airspace without being detected,” said Laxman Kumar Behera, who specialises on India’s national security at Jawaharlal Nehru University in New Delhi.

India’s retaliation on Thursday targeted Pakistan’s “air defence radars and systems at a number of locations in Pakistan”, according to the Indian military.

“That’s a very precise display of a very high-end capability — taking out the defences, rather than an actual target,” said a senior western diplomat based in Delhi. “It’s a carefully calibrated warning — it says, look, if we can come take the lock off your door, then we can come into the house whenever we want.”
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I am baffled by this. The SCALP-EG is a low-observable, terrain-hugging cruise missile. How exactly is it remarkable that many such missiles escaped destruction by Pakistan's GBAD?

Besides, it's not like Pakistan's GBAD network is dense. Per the latest version of The Military Balance (current as of 11/24), Pakistan has:
  • "Some" HQ-9/P launchers
  • 27x LY-80 launchers (HQ-16 export variant)
AFAICT, Pakistan bought 4x batteries of HQ-9/Ps, which would suggest a total of 32x launchers.

For reference, Pakistan is almost 1.5x as large as Ukraine... And Ukraine still gets hit by Russian missiles/drones despite having hundreds of long- and medium-range SAM platforms.
 
Gloire_bb

Gloire_bb

Major
Registered Member
Zichan said:
Pakistan is known to deploy China’s HQ-9 systems, which are a generation behind the sophistication of Russian S-400s and are at the top-end of India’s inventory.
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Oh, ffs. If we speak purely generation - in terms of generation HQ-9 in fact is ahead of S-400.
Because HQ-9 is a fully digital system based off S-300 series, S-400 is advanced development within S-300 series.
Yes, expanded and advanced, yes, deployed components of the system(primarily interceptors) are younger, but still.

S-400 by itself is not a generation of ADF systems(while HQ-9 arguably is, and, as similar as it is to S-300, which was obviously one of the finest SAM systems to work with - it is not a 1:1 copy of 1970s Soviet tech).
Overall, both of similar conceptual age probably, and should be judged as similar(i.e. relatively old concept/architecture with rather recently updated elements).
 
Observer1

Observer1

New Member
Registered Member
bsdnf said:
For the three Rafales claimed by Pakistan, there are actually only one Mirage and one Rafale, and one cannot be confirmed. I can only think of three branches:

1. The third "Rafale" was not shot down. Excessive claims of results are basically accompanied by air force history. After all, it is difficult for the victorious party to confirm the results. It may be just injured, or a bold Indian pilot flew at an ultra-low altitude in the mountains and escaped from the missile. That's the same "plane disappeared into the mountains"

2. The third "Rafale" is not a Rafale, but a fighter.
2.1 It was misreported like the Mirage 2000.
2.2 Why can't we see the information of the wreckage? The mountainous Kashmir region hinders the spread of finding information. The locals did not find the wreckage of the fighter and upload it to the Internet before the Indian official obviously strengthened the news control in the past two days

3. The third "Rafale" is a Rafale, and then we go back to 2.2
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One of the fighters they believe was a Rafale and showed satellite footage of the wreckage is exactly where the wreckage matching a Mirage-2000 was found.

They likely misidentified it. Third kill they are showing we've not seen anything in that area at all online.
 
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