the "artifical sun" made by china
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darth sidious
Banned Idiot
Aerodriver said:
do you see news about J-10 in china? or DF-31 or 093 sub ?
can you prove the the people's daily is lying?
Aerodriver
New Member
For starters comparing the J-10 to a civilian project like the reactor is pretty pointless, one is a military program, hence they keep it secret, one is a civilian program that would prove China's technology is 20 years ahead of anyone else on the planet. It would solve Chinas energy needs in one quite swoop so it would be all over the news because it would be a huge coup for China to have done this. I still see news about the space program, pictures on bill boards, wax worked of the astronaughts in museums etc and making a real self sustaining "mini sun" would make the Chinese space program pale into insignificance. It would be everywhere; cheap, clean renewable energy and they would not put the news out in one newspaper. Sorry I just have to laugh at that. China has a team working as part of the ITER project () it has to design and make the following components magnet conductor, correction coils, feeders and supports, blankets, remote handling transfer casks, gas injection system, electrical switchgear, some diagnostics. Which is according to the web site 10% of the total project. Each country does 10% with Europe doing 50%. I can no more prove it is a lie, more than you can prove its true. However, Darth, common sense should prevail and you should realize that all China has done is part of its work share for the international project. I don't want to sound too rude, but stop dreaming, wake up and smell the coffee.
and to Mr. C, I live in China, I can see how much some parts of the country is changing but in most things it is still behind western countries and it buys in a lot of technology (example the fastest train in the world in Shanghai, the space program, military weapon components etc) A self sustaining fusion reactor is the holly grail of physics at the moment, and I think a lot of guys are underestimating how important this discovery would be to the world, let alone to China on its own. To suddenly think it has jumped ahead of a major international project (that it is apart of) by twenty years I simply see as impossible. Anyway the next few months will tell because if it is true it will be everywhere the news if true, however I for one will not hold my breath.
I am not saying China is not catching up and I'm not saying it is not good a science (take a look at ) for a very favorable report about Chinas involvement in the ITER.
and to Mr. C, I live in China, I can see how much some parts of the country is changing but in most things it is still behind western countries and it buys in a lot of technology (example the fastest train in the world in Shanghai, the space program, military weapon components etc) A self sustaining fusion reactor is the holly grail of physics at the moment, and I think a lot of guys are underestimating how important this discovery would be to the world, let alone to China on its own. To suddenly think it has jumped ahead of a major international project (that it is apart of) by twenty years I simply see as impossible. Anyway the next few months will tell because if it is true it will be everywhere the news if true, however I for one will not hold my breath.
I am not saying China is not catching up and I'm not saying it is not good a science (take a look at ) for a very favorable report about Chinas involvement in the ITER.
darth sidious
Banned Idiot
Aerodriver said:
I serious doubt your ability to read chinese !!!!!!
If you read the people's daily artical then you wil understand it never said all those thing your claiming
advamce research on DSI and HTR/new battries/lithium aluminum alloy goes on in china as we speak do you hear about them every day !!!!
Also if you have been living in china for ANY period of time you willnotice advance research are usuely hidden from news
e.g superconducters in the 80s
HTR in the 90s (revealed 5 years after the construction on the first reactor )
all computer/ nuclear program in the Mao era
P.S most of our nembers have lived in china or speak chinese mention your current location does not make you special
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Is it a breakthrough? I don't know, you don't know, he doesn't know, nobody knows. We'll just have to wait for more news to come out of it. And I agree with sidious, I've never heard of any major research projects in China when I did live there. I didn't even hear of the ShenZhou 4 until just a short while before the date of launch (a short while=1 or 2 month, if i remember correctly... that was such a long time ago).
The Chinese media tends to report on accomplishments, not on would-be accomplishments, because if it fails, it'll be very disappointing. Remember the SZ 5 launch, CCTV was ready to put on programs that show the past failures of other countries' space programs if SZ 5 proves to be unsuccessful.
The Chinese media tends to report on accomplishments, not on would-be accomplishments, because if it fails, it'll be very disappointing. Remember the SZ 5 launch, CCTV was ready to put on programs that show the past failures of other countries' space programs if SZ 5 proves to be unsuccessful.
Vlad Plasmius
Junior Member
No offense, but you're all goddamn retarded. There was no mention of actually creating a reaction. This referred strictly to an engine test. I'm sure if the user who started the topic was referring to the creation of a reaction he or she'd say so.
Here's some info on it:
Here's some info on it:
darth sidious
Banned Idiot
Vlad Plasmius said:
how sad resorting to personal attack when all else fails:nono:
insted of resprting to ameture source such as wikipedia maybe reading the original chinese artical would help !!!:roll: :roll:
Aerodriver
New Member
Darth, that is exactly my point. YOU said what they had done was a fantastic achievement. I said it was simply part of the international project. FULL STOP. YOU over estimated what had been achieved, not me.
Out of interest I can read some Chinese, and what I don’t understand I will simply ask my tutor but what has that got to do with anything? Does it make you understanding of the physics involved and inparticular this program greater than mine? It may also supprise you that quite alot of laowei do learn Chinese, its not rocket science.....or should I say nuclear physics
The problem is you do not seem to grasp the magnitude of what you were claiming, the projects you just sited such as DSI and HTR/new batteries/lithium aluminum alloy are pin pricks in science, This project is huge, one of the biggest science projects ever.
If you live in ANY country advance research is hidden, China is not special, what is special about China is it control the news, so I was saying why would they only release what would have been the countries greatest modern achievement in only one news paper? What you said was not just a simple update on a science program, you said they had acheived it. BIG difference.
P.s. I did not say I was special, that is simply you choosing to read between the lines and come to a conclusion that is favorable to yourself, as you did with the initial article and your other posts on the topic. I simply stated that I live in China and there is no news regarding this (what would be) FANTASTIC news for the human race, hence I used that to back up my argument that what you first stated was incorrect. I think even you must agree you were simply wide of the mark with what you first posted. I am not attacking you, your views or anything to do with China, I am simply saying in this case you were incorrect with your initial post.
Out of interest I can read some Chinese, and what I don’t understand I will simply ask my tutor but what has that got to do with anything? Does it make you understanding of the physics involved and inparticular this program greater than mine? It may also supprise you that quite alot of laowei do learn Chinese, its not rocket science.....or should I say nuclear physics
The problem is you do not seem to grasp the magnitude of what you were claiming, the projects you just sited such as DSI and HTR/new batteries/lithium aluminum alloy are pin pricks in science, This project is huge, one of the biggest science projects ever.
If you live in ANY country advance research is hidden, China is not special, what is special about China is it control the news, so I was saying why would they only release what would have been the countries greatest modern achievement in only one news paper? What you said was not just a simple update on a science program, you said they had acheived it. BIG difference.
P.s. I did not say I was special, that is simply you choosing to read between the lines and come to a conclusion that is favorable to yourself, as you did with the initial article and your other posts on the topic. I simply stated that I live in China and there is no news regarding this (what would be) FANTASTIC news for the human race, hence I used that to back up my argument that what you first stated was incorrect. I think even you must agree you were simply wide of the mark with what you first posted. I am not attacking you, your views or anything to do with China, I am simply saying in this case you were incorrect with your initial post.
darth sidious
Banned Idiot
Aerodriver said:Darth, that is exactly my point. YOU said what they had done was a fantastic achievement. I said it was simply part of the international project. FULL STOP. YOU over estimated what had been achieved, not me.
Out of interest I can read some Chinese, and what I don’t understand I will simply ask my tutor but what has that got to do with anything? Does it make you understanding of the physics involved and inparticular this program greater than mine? It may also supprise you that quite alot of laowei do learn Chinese, its not rocket science.....or should I say nuclear physics
The problem is you do not seem to grasp the magnitude of what you were claiming, the projects you just sited such as DSI and HTR/new batteries/lithium aluminum alloy are pin pricks in science, This project is huge, one of the biggest science projects ever.
If you live in ANY country advance research is hidden, China is not special, what is special about China is it control the news, so I was saying why would they only release what would have been the countries greatest modern achievement in only one news paper? What you said was not just a simple update on a science program, you said they had acheived it. BIG difference.
P.s. I did not say I was special, that is simply you choosing to read between the lines and come to a conclusion that is favorable to yourself, as you did with the initial article and your other posts on the topic. I simply stated that I live in China and there is no news regarding this (what would be) FANTASTIC news for the human race, hence I used that to back up my argument that what you first stated was incorrect. I think even you must agree you were simply wide of the mark with what you first posted. I am not attacking you, your views or anything to do with China, I am simply saying in this case you were incorrect with your initial post.
do not hide from the truce !!!!
I merly suoppport what the central government saide in the theor news paper
you on the other hand claims the following
1.it can not be done as china is too "primitive" for its development
2. it will never work when the artical specificly said a 8200 amp current
is produced
3. the offical news agency is BSing and this does not exist
as for you chinese ability judging from you question itss preety clear you manage to understand about 1/15-1/20 of it
your hatred aginst the CCP midea is just bizarr, I find the news more relible then FOX especialy in international affaires
for your information understaning a questionis the forst step to sloving it
also trying looking up the previous history of chinese research it might help you understand it
you deliberatly used the fact that you live in china as some sort of magical counter as offical news release even when most of us have lived there for some time
I merly told you that your location =/= complete understanding on all things chinese
Dear Sirs,
This is my first reply (and only my second post!) so please bear with me. I read that article off the website of the people's daily some time ago. The gist of it is that China has decided to run a parallel experimental tokamak program in addition to their participation in ITER (the International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor at Cadarache, France).
It is not a working fusion power reactor, very far from it. The configuration, (that of the tokamak) is in fact Soviet in origin, designed by Andrei Sakharov and Igor Tamm (if I'm not mistaken). In this design the ionized gases (the plasma) serve as the secondary of a transformer and are heated by the induced currents. It has proven to be the most promising of thermonuclear designs (constrast this with the Western desings it replaced like the Stellarator).
Doubtless this experiment (as any well-designed experiment should), serves several purposes; first, it allows China to familiarize itself with the design, materials and construction of a thermonuclear reactor; second, it allows the study of plasma dynamics (a very complicated and difficult field) in the reactor environment; third, it introduces to China the use of Superconducting Maganets in the field coils and fourth, it provides independant validation of the designs, calculations and criteria established for ITER.
From the pictures, clearly it is at least an order of magnitude (around 10x) smaller than ITER, thus is a much more modest effort, but probably sufficient given China's existing financial and technological constraints. The lesson here is to walk before you run.
The "Artificial Sun" comparison is unfortunate and misleading as the sun itself operates on an entirely different principle. In it's core the sun fuses light hydrogen (protium) together to form helium via a complex catalyzed fusion reaction (i.e. via many nuclear intermediary reactions). This was first explained by Hans Bethe for which he won the Nobel prize.
Viewed as a fusion reactor the sun uses gravity to confine its plasma, that is not an option available to us. Also, the reaction takes place a extremely high pressures, another option not available to us (as the energy release would be like a bomb). Lastly the sun's thermonuclear reaction time is very long, and seems large due to vast quantity of material reacting.
The chief characteristics of modern thermonuclear reactors can be summarized as, magnetic confinement of the plasma, low plasma densities, long plasma confinement periods, and of course much higher plasma temperatures than in the sun.
As to the availability of heavy hydrogen, China has long been able to produce it. In fact it inadvertantly sold some to India, by mistake. It also has tritium production reactors like the ones the USA operates.
Lastly before I end my post, I would like to point out an interesting characteristic of the fusion reaction we are relying on... that in the D-D (deuterium-deuterium) and D-T (deuterium-tritium) reactions, most of the energy released (unlike that in a fission reactor) is in the incident neutron, (some 85%) and not in the fusion product itself. So to capture the energy, you must slow the neutron.
Best Regards
This is my first reply (and only my second post!) so please bear with me. I read that article off the website of the people's daily some time ago. The gist of it is that China has decided to run a parallel experimental tokamak program in addition to their participation in ITER (the International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor at Cadarache, France).
It is not a working fusion power reactor, very far from it. The configuration, (that of the tokamak) is in fact Soviet in origin, designed by Andrei Sakharov and Igor Tamm (if I'm not mistaken). In this design the ionized gases (the plasma) serve as the secondary of a transformer and are heated by the induced currents. It has proven to be the most promising of thermonuclear designs (constrast this with the Western desings it replaced like the Stellarator).
Doubtless this experiment (as any well-designed experiment should), serves several purposes; first, it allows China to familiarize itself with the design, materials and construction of a thermonuclear reactor; second, it allows the study of plasma dynamics (a very complicated and difficult field) in the reactor environment; third, it introduces to China the use of Superconducting Maganets in the field coils and fourth, it provides independant validation of the designs, calculations and criteria established for ITER.
From the pictures, clearly it is at least an order of magnitude (around 10x) smaller than ITER, thus is a much more modest effort, but probably sufficient given China's existing financial and technological constraints. The lesson here is to walk before you run.
The "Artificial Sun" comparison is unfortunate and misleading as the sun itself operates on an entirely different principle. In it's core the sun fuses light hydrogen (protium) together to form helium via a complex catalyzed fusion reaction (i.e. via many nuclear intermediary reactions). This was first explained by Hans Bethe for which he won the Nobel prize.
Viewed as a fusion reactor the sun uses gravity to confine its plasma, that is not an option available to us. Also, the reaction takes place a extremely high pressures, another option not available to us (as the energy release would be like a bomb). Lastly the sun's thermonuclear reaction time is very long, and seems large due to vast quantity of material reacting.
The chief characteristics of modern thermonuclear reactors can be summarized as, magnetic confinement of the plasma, low plasma densities, long plasma confinement periods, and of course much higher plasma temperatures than in the sun.
As to the availability of heavy hydrogen, China has long been able to produce it. In fact it inadvertantly sold some to India, by mistake. It also has tritium production reactors like the ones the USA operates.
Lastly before I end my post, I would like to point out an interesting characteristic of the fusion reaction we are relying on... that in the D-D (deuterium-deuterium) and D-T (deuterium-tritium) reactions, most of the energy released (unlike that in a fission reactor) is in the incident neutron, (some 85%) and not in the fusion product itself. So to capture the energy, you must slow the neutron.
Best Regards