Taiwan Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

Aero_Wing_32

Aero_Wing_32

Junior Member
Skywatcher said:
It might not hurt for you to read up on aeronautical design principles. The J-20, whatever its faults, is not a copy of the F-22 (look at the intakes, wing positioning and design, all movable tailfins).
So a 3+ gen fighter can 'sometimes' shoot down a 5th gen fighter in a dogfight. Big deal. A P-51 piston engine fighter can also 'sometimes' shoot down a gen3+ fighter in a dogfight.
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Don't patronize me Pal, I meant the bird and its technology inside. Don t worry the chinese want to copy the F-22 technology. But as far as we know, they won't use reverse engineering given the fact that they ve no F-22 in hand... I agree, the J-20 design is not so closed to the F-22 one. So what?! They want to get a same level of stealth. But sure they will need years to make this bird a real gen.5 aircraft and produce it.
 
S

Skywatcher

Captain
Aero_Wing_32 said:
Don't patronize me Pal, I meant the bird and its technology inside. Don t worry the chinese want to copy the F-22 technology.
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China, unlike what your statement suggests, does not need to 'copy' F-22 technology They just need to build a VLO airframe, assorted electronics (which they already have) and engines. That's not F-22 technology anymore than 'F-15 technology' is found in the Su-27 Flanker.

But as far as we know, they won't use reverse engineering given the fact that they ve no F-22 in hand... I agree, the J-20 design is not so closed to the F-22 one
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Concession accepted.

So what?! They want to get a same level of stealth. But sure they will need years to make this bird a real gen.5 aircraft and produce it.
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By 2017-19, if the USAF intel is right. Did I say anywhere that it wouldn't take them time to do so? I doubt the J-20 is going to be a "a simple preliminary model of a F-22" by 2017.
 
J

johnboy

New Member
Off the current topic: does anyone remember that 1990s-era website, China vs. Taiwan Military Match-Ups? I've been working on some similar projects as a hobby, and once I got started I discovered that old classic was gone. I always thought it was quite well done, given that it was probably just one guy working as a hobby.
 
Spartan95

Spartan95

Junior Member
Mr T said:
Assuming you're correct, there's little the ROCAF can do if the US won't sell it new planes. Taiwan is too small to fund its own lavish stealth project, as a democracy anyway - if it had a North Korea style regime and funnelled 15% of GDP into defence I guess it could.
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Well, the ROCAF also happens to operate Mirage 2000 fighters. And those certainly didn't come from the US.

Their Navy also operates a derivative of the French stealth frigate. Thus, the ROC military actually have experience with stealth technology (of the maritime nature).

As for the ROC military needing modernisation, a simple look at when their last significant hardware purchase will put it in stark contrast. The 8 years under DPP rule didn't do much for their military, despite the pro-independence stance of DPP. Heck, even their stealth frigates are in their mid-life stage already, to say nothing of the life span of their aircraft's air frame.
 
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Aero_Wing_32

Aero_Wing_32

Junior Member
Spartan95 said:
Well, the ROCAF also happens to operate Mirage 2000 fighters. And those certainly didn't come from the US.
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France would become really upset by recent scandals coming from China: Industrial espionage / spy. Who knows how France will solve this problem, given the fact that China reacts with anger to these investigations and allegations... But the Renault's case seems really serious.

Anyway, we re no more in the 90s. French are often afraid of any chinese reaction (remember some "fresh" boycotts on french products), the "banker" of the World. Besides some people around Sarkozy are really closed to Chinese lobbyists... For now, I still don t see any upcoming fighter deal between Taiwan and France. Maybe I am wrong.
 
MwRYum

MwRYum

Major
Aero_Wing_32 said:
France would become really upset by recent scandals coming from China: Industrial espionage / spy. Who knows how France will solve this problem, given the fact that China reacts with anger to these investigations and allegations... But the Renault's case seems really serious.

Anyway, we re no more in the 90s. French are often afraid of any chinese reaction (remember some "fresh" boycotts on french products), the "banker" of the World. Besides some people around Sarkozy are really closed to Chinese lobbyists... For now, I still don t see any upcoming fighter deal between Taiwan and France. Maybe I am wrong.
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Even so, France need a smack at their brainbox now and then (remember the "reception" by Paris during 2008 Olympic torch relay?) to remind them this China ain't the one they can screw around anymore, but fortunately France is really in a bind domestically, so much so they're too preoccupied to screw with China.

And for Taiwan, arms deal with France was a very bitter pill, not just the scandals pertain to it, but the fallout as well - especially for the La Fayette Class frigates, with its original design it can receive a weapon package on par or even better than that of the 054a class, but since the "French connection" gone sour chances to acquire stuff like the Aster missiles and its VLS package gone with the wind, and they ended up under-equipping the La Fayette Class.

Another problem with Taiwan's defence effort is the overall unenthusiastic by the society - unlike in China, Taiwanese generally looking down on the military; their media take perverse joy in casting the military in a bad way; their males want to skip the national service as far as possible; their MPs want to see the defence budget slashed instead of pump it up to meet the future demand; their R&D houses got thrown into back-burner (remember the F-CK-1 IDF? Many of its engineers ended up working for the Koreans now, for the F-50 project) without the needed budget to pursue the needed indigenous projects; and when you remind them a strong military is needed for their goal of independence, they'd either say the American GIs will save the day, or the world should hand them the recognition like god-sent, without the Taiwanese spend a dime on military...

And for recent news, their defence ministers was dumbfounded when hounded by the MPs about China's J-20...
 
Aero_Wing_32

Aero_Wing_32

Junior Member
MwRYum said:
Even so, France need a smack at their brainbox now and then (remember the "reception" by Paris during 2008 Olympic torch relay?) to remind them this China ain't the one they can screw around anymore, but fortunately France is really in a bind domestically, so much so they're too preoccupied to screw with China.

And for Taiwan, arms deal with France was a very bitter pill, not just the scandals pertain to it, but the fallout as well - especially for the La Fayette Class frigates, with its original design it can receive a weapon package on par or even better than that of the 054a class, but since the "French connection" gone sour chances to acquire stuff like the Aster missiles and its VLS package gone with the wind, and they ended up under-equipping the La Fayette Class.

Another problem with Taiwan's defence effort is the overall unenthusiastic by the society - unlike in China, Taiwanese generally looking down on the military; their media take perverse joy in casting the military in a bad way; their males want to skip the national service as far as possible; their MPs want to see the defence budget slashed instead of pump it up to meet the future demand; their R&D houses got thrown into back-burner (remember the F-CK-1 IDF? Many of its engineers ended up working for the Koreans now, for the F-50 project) without the needed budget to pursue the needed indigenous projects; and when you remind them a strong military is needed for their goal of independence, they'd either say the American GIs will save the day, or the world should hand them the recognition like god-sent, without the Taiwanese spend a dime on military...

And for recent news, their defence ministers was dumbfounded when hounded by the MPs about China's J-20...
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Wow! You really give a so pessimistic point of view, buddy! LOL
One more time, I do think that the Lafayette case remain a big issue for the 2 parts. It must be solved. How? When? We will see... But they did not make always bad deals altogether.
See the Mirage deal, it was not that bad in fact! And the birds make the job. If french get bored by RPC who can't become a trustful partner to them, they would react and perhaps accept a full upgrade of the ROCAF Mirage fleet, the same as for the Indian Air Force. Or they would stay as the new little vassal country to China, for good!
 
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Mr T

Mr T

Senior Member
Spartan95 said:
Well, the ROCAF also happens to operate Mirage 2000 fighters. And those certainly didn't come from the US.
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I'm not holding my breath for the French to sell any new, substantial weapons to Taiwan.

The 8 years under DPP rule didn't do much for their military, despite the pro-independence stance of DPP.
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Probably because the KMT kept vetoing the arms purchases in the legislative for most of those 8 years. By the time they decided they might win the 2008 election and therefore needed to upgrade the armed forces, the US was more reluctant to sell arms.
 
Geographer

Geographer

Junior Member
Because they would be sanctioning every major defense/aerospace and electronic company in the US and the PRC needs to buy things from those companies too, even for civilian use eg Boeing airliners.
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The U.S. does it with companies, not even defense companies, that do business with Iran. Banks, oil companies, etc. Those companies usually choose to remain on the U.S.'s good side and cease doing business with Iran. In short, when forced to choose between Iran and the U.S., most Western companies choose the U.S.

I don't see why China would be any different. Sanctioning companies that sell arms to Taiwan would set a precedent that changes prospective defense suppliers' thinking in the future. For example, the civil aviation market for Boeing in China is far larger than the defense market in Taiwan, so if forced to choose Boeing would refuse to sell to Taiwan to curry favor with the Chinese. Smaller companies that sell sub-components would be more malleable. Is this an accurate assessment?
 
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