Suggestion: Implement Peer Moderation on SDF

Heresy said:

This is a Pro-China forum.

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Nah, historically, this forum has avoided US-China Flame Wars, and very against nationalism by both sides.

For example, I got perm banned for 6 years from this forum for participating in US-China flame war (By JeffHead, who ironically is a pro-Trump white Super Moderator here).

Historically, this forum is very neutral and professional. It was only after Trump's insane anti-China rhetoric that the floodgates opened, and lack of moderators to monitor the huge US-China threads on politics, tariffs, Huawei, etc... I would highly prefer that nationalism be contained in single threads as it stands now, rather than let nationalism seep into the more professional threads. We cannot be like IDF or PDF.

Overbom said:

Well, as long as the people here can make valid arguments here then I can accept everyone as a valuable member of this community even if we share different beliefs,, only if the arguments are valid and logical.

With this new menace we have now (we all know who he is), the problem is that while he has some valid arguments, he is clearly a troll, and often avoids answering logical counter-arguments against his own opinion. That he keeps doing this even after repeatedly getting corrected by other members, leads me to believe that he is just another (slightly more polished) troll

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And what makes you think an argument is valid or invalid? You know, I don't like this pussy-footing around, so I'll just come out and say it. @SleepyStudent might think that his arguments ARE valid? Oh sure, he might try to consciously fool himself into thinking he's 'trolling' but ask yourself. Are you capable of saying such ridiculous things day in and day out if on some level, you don't believe it?

And this isn't a question of valid or logical arguments at all, because validity is subjective and logic is just a tool. You can logically argue ANYTHING, if you proceed from certain assumptions and axioms. If you choose to avail yourself only to certain facts and dismiss others, you can logically argue, for example, that white supremacism is not only morally just, but actually a net benefit to humankind.

Thinking that logical and rational argumentation should carry the day is just leaving a gate in your castle to allow the barbarians to rush in. The Overton Window doesn't care about logical argumentation and rationalism because ultimately human communities and tribalism doesn't care about logical argumentation and rationalism. What is pinning this entire issue isn't how rational a member is or isn't; it's the subconscious tribalism that are driving the assumptions that member makes which underpin his 'logical' argumentation.

I think if we stop to think about a lot of our opinions and long-held positions that we think are arrived at after rational thinking and logic, we'll start to realize that logic and rationality are just covering for the fact that our personal traumas, our cultural backgrounds and other non-rational and non-logical factors are as much responsible for our positions and opinions as 'logic'.

Phead128 said:

Nah, historically, this forum has avoided US-China Flame Wars, and very against nationalism by both sides.

For example, I got perm banned for 6 years from this forum for participating in US-China flame war (By JeffHead, who ironically is a pro-Trump white Super Moderator here).

Historically, this forum is very neutral and professional. It was only after Trump's insane anti-China rhetoric that the floodgates opened, and lack of moderators to monitor the huge US-China threads on politics, tariffs, Huawei, etc... I would highly prefer that nationalism be contained in single threads as it stands now, rather than let nationalism seep into the more professional threads. We cannot be like IDF or PDF.

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Historically, the political and geopolitical climate allowed for a less political forum dedicated to more technical matters to be discussed. The forum was also smaller and fewer topics are discussed and allowed. What was is irrelevant. What this forum is today, is a broadly pro-China forum. Period. Again, people are free to nitpick and argue against this, but that's at best missing the forest from the trees and at worst being delusional about reality.

The only way to return this forum to that is basically closing off the vast majority of most of these topics and relegating yourself a handful of topics and allowing only technical posts regarding those topics. You might as well also take away taking posting privileges from 99% of the members here because most of us don't really have the time/energy/will to offer up new technical insights on those topics.

And then, your forum will basically shrink to about 20-30 people. Because as we all know, technical revelations about current and new PLA systems show up maybe once a month. Sometimes less. And at some point, some of these 20-30 people will move on. And at that point, why even bother to have a forum?

Phead128 said:

For example, I got perm banned for 6 years from this forum for participating in US-China flame war (By JeffHead, who ironically is a pro-Trump white Super Moderator here).

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Wow. I didn't know you can rejoined after being banned, especially after 6 years (better not speak ill about Jeff, he's not well at the moment).

Heresy said:

And then, your forum will basically shrink to about 20-30 people. Because as we all know, technical revelations about current and new PLA systems show up maybe once a month. Sometimes less. And at some point, some of these 20-30 people will move on. And at that point, why even bother to have a forum?

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Exactly right. Which is why the MODS made it clear, political discussion are not allowed on the flagship military thread. Which is what we are all here for. But discussions on these threads are few and far between because the nature of military development. And as such, most members will leave with no activities to involved in. (And I'm sure webby won't be too happy).

With regards to "political" discussions, yes I only noticed an increase due to Trump's anti-China stance. (I lost count of the times I've told people that China never started all this animosity towards the west.

And if we look at the most popular threads are usually news related. We are human after all, we can't remove ourselves from society.

With regards to echo chambers. Well I actually welcome alternate view point providing they are backup with facts and coherent thinking. People like this guy that just got deleted and certain other members just wanted to post what ever on this mind and not bother to argue their view point, and ignore anything else anybody said.

But I still defend their right to have they say.

SDF was never intended to be a politics heavy forum. I'm frankly not against a complete ban on political discussions. Why have them here when they already permeate and corrode every corner of the internet? Politics only serves to attract fanboys who then wander over to the flagship military forums to create all kinds of problems. I guess the question is whether it's sustainable long-term to keep the quality of the flagship forums high while still accommodating political discussions. On the other hand, politics does attract more eyeballs, which in turn bring in more ad revenue to help offset hosting costs. So I suppose there are benefits.

Either way, we should definitely have more mods. More moderators can definitely help with enforcing a separation between the flagship forums and the political threads.

Whatever the form, I think there definitely needs to be some kind of peer moderation on SDF.

It's clear that we don't have many active mods for our current size, and we've also seen the perils of promoting a user to a mod without proper vetting.

Restricting posting rights for new members is all well and good, but cannot by itself prevent the kind of trolling that we often see in the political threads.

As for disallowing political discussion, I think that's a bad idea. This forum is the most active it's ever been, and that is largely thanks to the number of active political threads. Active discussion is what makes the forum interesting, we just need a mechanism to weed out those who are not interested in arguing in good faith.

solarz said:

Whatever the form, I think there definitely needs to be some kind of peer moderation on SDF.

It's clear that we don't have many active mods for our current size, and we've also seen the perils of promoting a user to a mod without proper vetting.

Restricting posting rights for new members is all well and good, but cannot by itself prevent the kind of trolling that we often see in the political threads.

As for disallowing political discussion, I think that's a bad idea. This forum is the most active it's ever been, and that is largely thanks to the number of active political threads. Active discussion is what makes the forum interesting, we just need a mechanism to weed out those who are not interested in arguing in good faith.

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Agreed. And since there's hardly ever "cross over" between current affairs and military threads. And any do wonder accross quickly get stamped out by the MODS, as the MODS don't wish to get theses threads to become free for all.

So, I can't see the problem. Also, those advocating "strict rules". They got to remember, they don't have to view or part take in those threads. And as was mentioned. I'm sure our current status attracts more visitors to keep this a subscription free forum.

Gatekeeper said:

Agreed. And since there's hardly ever "cross over" between current affairs and military threads. And any do wonder accross quickly get stamped out by the MODS, as the MODS don't wish to get theses threads to become free for all.

So, I can't see the problem. Also, those advocating "strict rules". Tgey got to remember, they don't have to view or part take in those threads. And as was mentioned. I'm sure our current status attracts more visitors to keep this a subscription free forum.

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Still need more mods only for political threads. Maybe that way the requirements for recruiting mods will be lowered. Keep the military savvy and respected current mods responsible for military section and political (if it goes out of hand)

While recruiting mods only for the political section. Requirements should be that the mod can write a normal sentence, not a troll, not extremely biased, and logical. I dont think this will be difficult. Also, dropping the military knowledge requirement (not 100% it exists), would broaden the pool for potential candidates

There are limitations to what can be done on this forum based on the software they are using. Downvoting, user privilege/limits etc do not look like they are feature sets (click on the xenforo link at the bottom for info on the software being used here)

daifo said:

There is a limitation to what can be done on this forum by the software they are using. Downvotes, user privlege/limits etc do not look like they are feature sets (click on the xenforo link at the bottom for info on the software being used here)

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Maybe they could be able to lower requirements for mods and restrict them only for the political section.

I have noticed that all the current mods have the "Super Moderator" tag. Maybe that means that there are other categories for mods?

Dunno, but you are right on the potential restriction on the forum software