Submarines and mines truly undetectable to active sonar might become a reality soon

Re: Submarines and mines truly undetectable to active sonar might become a reality so

Spartan95 said:

Depends pretty much on the water conditions. Murky waters means practically useless detection ranges for LIDAR, crystal clear waters means really good detection ranges.

Click to expand...

I don't think any navy will be willing to depend on a system that will only work in tropical resorts.

Also, regarding the article you posted, it talks about acoustic invisibility in the ultrasound frequencies against incoming soundwaves. That's fairly selective wording as it does not mention what frequencies it won't work against (non-ultrasonic frequencies?) and how it masks soundwaves that are not external in source (such as internal machinery noise, water-flow noise and propeller noise).

Click to expand...

That was only the first proof-of-concept model. The technology in its most basic form. Since this is using the same principles as metamaterials developed to bend light, it will almost certainly follow the same design path whereby more and more frequencies can be bent as the material is developed.

I also pointed out the fact that the effect of the technology on internally generated noise is uncertain in my first post.

Nonetheless, this technology is quite ground-breaking as it will make a stationary object with no internal noise source (sub or mine) invisible to sonar. In the case of mines, it may be a double-edged sword though since it is also invisible to whoever planted it.

Click to expand...

Most modern mines are 'smart' and have an onboard library of acoustic signatures and will only attack specific ones or not attack other ones, depending on the design and how they were programmed.

If it was really a concern, onboard GPS trackers can the installed that will only activate if the correct codes are received. Or they could just program the mines to self-destruct if the right codes are received. Lots of options.

Re: Submarines and mines truly undetectable to active sonar might become a reality so

plawolf said:

I don't think any navy will be willing to depend on a system that will only work in tropical resorts.

Click to expand...

Depends on whether there is a better alternative. If there isn't an alternative, than it really isn't much of a choice.

plawolf said:

That was only the first proof-of-concept model. The technology in its most basic form. Since this is using the same principles as metamaterials developed to bend light, it will almost certainly follow the same design path whereby more and more frequencies can be bent as the material is developed.

Click to expand...

That's an assumption.

Higher frequencies (i.e., shorter wavelengths) are easier to bend. Lower frequencies will be more difficult. Having a material that works over a long range of frequencies is quite unlikely. Stealth technology provides a parallel where shaping is used for stealth at lower frequencies, whilst radar absorbent material is used for higher frequencies.

plawolf said:

I also pointed out the fact that the effect of the technology on internally generated noise is uncertain in my first post.

Click to expand...

Internally generated noise is but 1 aspect. Flow noise (water flowing pass the object) is the other, and it is not the same as internally generated noise.

plawolf said:

Most modern mines are 'smart' and have an onboard library of acoustic signatures and will only attack specific ones or not attack other ones, depending on the design and how they were programmed.

If it was really a concern, onboard GPS trackers can the installed that will only activate if the correct codes are received. Or they could just program the mines to self-destruct if the right codes are received. Lots of options.

Click to expand...

Options there are indeed. Question is will it be done and how effective are the safeguards?

And what if the country that planted the minefield didn't bother to clear it after the conflict (as has happened numerous times in the past century)?