Spruance-class Destroyers

bigstick61

Junior Member
I thought they can use the SM-2 against ships and also that it had already been done...? Or can specifficly the Burkes not do it while Spurances and Ticos could/can??

You can't fire a weapon in a direct-fire ashion from a VLS. The missile would have to be an actual anti-ship missile. The Mk 29 launcher and the Mk 26 on Ticos or the Mk 13 formerly on OHPs allows one to point and shoot at enemy warships, while a VLS does not. They have been used in such a manner in combat by US forcers, with more shots being fired that way against ships than Harpoons, along with more hits being achieved. An example of this is Operation Praying Mantis in the Gulf between the US and Iranian Navies; a surface action group fired a couple of Harpoons and several Standard missiles from above-deck launchers, and then closed in and finished off the target with guns.
 

Tasman

Junior Member
You can't fire a weapon in a direct-fire ashion from a VLS. The missile would have to be an actual anti-ship missile. The Mk 29 launcher and the Mk 26 on Ticos or the Mk 13 formerly on OHPs allows one to point and shoot at enemy warships, while a VLS does not.

Interesting information that I didn't know. I presume that will also apply to the ESSM which has just been tested against a surface target fired from the MK 29 MOD 4, eight-cell trainable launcher on board the former Spruance class destroyer USS Paul F. Foster (DD 964) now being used as a self defence test ship.

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Cheers
 

crazyinsane105

Junior Member
VIP Professional
US offered Spruance to Pakistan????? China should have pay for the ships for Pakistanis and get those US sonar suites. But I don't quite believe this.

These ships were offered a while back, somewhere around last summer. Pakistan would have gotten the actual ship for free and would have had to pay for the upgrades. Had the PN gone for the Spruance that ship would be the largest ship in tonnage operating on the Indian subcontinent (besides the Indian aircraft carrier) and had the potential in becoming a very formidable air defense platform, but PN decided against it for several reasons:

1. This would have required a rather large crew to operate
2. The PN doesn't have proper air cover and the Spruance would be a sitting duck
3. Logistics
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Currently, this is the roster of remaining Spruances:

USS Paul F. Foster (EDD-964) Active, in Service

Arthur W. Radford (DD-968) Maintenance Category X, to be sunk

Conolly (DD-979) Maintenance Category X

Cushing (DD-985) Maintenance Category C, to be sold

O'Bannon (DD-987) Maintenance Category C, to be sold

Fletcher (DD-992) Maintenance Category X, to be sold
I think we have to add DD-971, David R. Ray to this list. Maintenance Category C, as well. It was to be sold to Portugal in 2006, but they pulled out. As we have discussed on other threads, it is still sitting in Bremerton.

I think the Radford, the Conolloy, the Cushing, the O'Bannon, the Fletcher, and the Paul should all be placed in the reserve fleet and kept in a state of readiness in case of need.
 
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Pointblank

Senior Member
I think we have to add DD-971, David R. Ray to this list. Maintenance Category C, as well. It was to be sold to Portugal in 2006, but they pulled out. As we have discussed on other threads, it is still sitting in Bremerton.

I think the Radford, the Conolloy, the Cushing, the O'Bannon, the Fletcher, and the Paul should all be placed in the reserve fleet and kept in a state of readiness in case of need.

Or be sold to Canada to replace the Tribal destroyers as they are now well past their best before dates... :rofl: ;)
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
At least two are being sold, with the most likely customer being the ROC.
They would be a good buy for the ROCN...but they would need four IMHO in order to be able to have a couple available for sea duty at all times...but I personally would rather see four stay in reserve in the USN.
 

bigstick61

Junior Member
So would I, I'm just commenting on the planned disposition of a couple of the vessels. To my knowledge, only two are planned to be retained.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
So would I, I'm just commenting on the planned disposition of a couple of the vessels. To my knowledge, only two are planned to be retained.
Well, one remains active as a test bed and the USN must be planning on keeping at least one in support of that. I cannot see why, with six available, that the US does not keep four altogether. But then, by the same token, as we have discussed, I cannot see why the USN didn't keep 12 or 18 either. It just does not make any sense, we certainly had the hulls and they were in good shape.

If their thinking is that there is no possibility of future nations or pacts of nations threatening the US, then all I have to say is two things. Number one, at a prior point in history they fought a "war to end all wars" and were victorious and then disarmed significantly with this same thought...that didn't work out too well back then.

The second thing I would say is more to the point..these policy makers and think tankers should simply "wake up and smell the roses"...or, even more simply put..."Nuts!"

Anyhow, back to the potential sale. If I were the ROCN, I would not buy just two...that would mean effectively you only have one avaialble at any given time. But perhaps they feel that that is good enough for their needs. I guess we shall see.
 

bigstick61

Junior Member
If their thinking is that there is no possibility of future nations or pacts of nations threatening the US, then all I have to say is two things. Number one, at a prior point in history they fought a "war to end all wars" and were victorious and then disarmed significantly with this same thought...that didn't work out too well back then.

That really is how the defense officials (most of them, including the ones that count) think these days. They do not see any one really challenging the US for a very long time at sea in any meaningful way, and have become overly enamored with our state of technology and are thus overconfident in its capabilities. They seem to also think that the USn will only fight small, mostly obsolete navies, pirates, and terrorists at sea, and otherwise just show presence or support operations ashore, mainly those in support of the war on terror. For this, should there presumption be true, there would be little justification for a sizeable navy. But, for the reasons you mentioned and others, this is not the case. There are three major or rising powers with large and expanding navies which could potentially challenge us in the future, despite our trade relations, and it is very possible that if they were to challenge us, it would be together as allies. These countries are Russia, China, and India, which on most or all fronts are opposed to the US, and for which the chances of future conflict are considerable. A conflict with them would likely bring us into conflict with many smaller navies as well, and our presence would have to be global. Our current and projected forces are not up to the task of fighting such a large conflict, or even one a bit smaller.

As for the sale, the two are the only ones being offered up. One is to be retained in mothballs indefinitely, and another is to continue its service as the self-defense test ship. The rest are planned to be sunk, although I think one or two may not have had their method of disposal determined, although they are planned to be disposed of. Personally, I think we should maintain the ones remaining in reserve, all of them.
 
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