South Korean Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

Gloire_bb said:

On the other hand, it gets to be readily adaptable, by definition obtains more external stores, and carries oversized payloads w/o any issues.

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Both F35 and F22 have provisions for oversized stores by external hard points, the Adaptability would in theory be in external pods that would sacrifice RCS for additional equipment. It has degrees of radar cross section reduction but so do the latest iterations of 4th gen F16 and F/A18.

Gloire_bb said:

Since it is designed to be seen, such aircraft is likely to be more survivable when it's the case(it's the hypothesis behind its EW suite, after all).

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Fifth generation fighters combine a EW suite and Stealth shaping + materials to get the best of both. The EW suite allows the pilot to move his machine in a manor so has to get the most out of his stealth. By using external stores in the way the KFX aims to the ability is sacrificed to a farther degree.
Where an F35 might be able to pass a radar at 50km with internal only loads, an External loading sibling has to fly by at say 100km this probably more like 150km. To avoid detection. The claim made that none stealthy would be more survivable is questionable at best. As EW is what stealth is. Stealth as we know it today is a combination of passive and active electromagnetic signature control.

Gloire_bb said:

Finally, while not a true stealth, some of its aspects(and empty or near-empty configuration) may be decently stealthy, maybe even within realm of true stealth aircraft. Egressing from the battlefield, or, say, ambushes from low altitude using outrageously long burn of meteors come to mind.

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We are here I think kinda agreeing, the KFX seems tailored to allow ingress and egress vs the low end Air Force and air defense capabilities often seen in the third world. This makes sense as the most likely target for use of it would be the DPRK. With the exception of Pyongyang the air defense of the nation seems rather poreus. Vs the antique Air Force of MiG 21s these would likely hold there own well higher end F35 could take higher risk targets around the central capital with its fortified air defenses and Mig29s.

TerraN_EmpirE said:

Both F35 and F22 have provisions for oversized stores by external hard points,

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Well, 4 external stores per bird. It's telling that recently shown f-35 "beast mode"(actual bird, not slides) was about as beastly as fully loaded P-47, despite being shown w/o drop tanks.
Yes, with internal ones it's still quite a few, but this one simply has more.

TerraN_EmpirE said:

It has degrees of radar cross section reduction but so do the latest iterations of 4th gen F16 and F/A18.

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Completely incomparable, here we have a genuine stealth geometry. Optimized 4th gens, including ones from 1990s, are very unlikely to even come close.

TerraN_EmpirE said:

The claim made that none stealthy would be more survivable is questionable at best.

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The claim was that non-stealth aircraft with full EW suite and external payload is likely to be superior to a stealth aircraft with external payloads. There is no argument, full stealth is better, but some(many, in fact) payloads don't let this to happen.

TerraN_EmpirE said:

We are here I think kinda agreeing, the KFX seems tailored to allow ingress and egress vs the low end Air Force and air defense capabilities often seen in the third world.

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I don't think this will be found wanting against just about any air force in the world. J-10s, -11s and -16s, Su-30s and 35s, F-15s and -18s don't go anywhere.
Simply not a penetration aircraft. Nothing more, nothing less.

It's unlikely this program will develop beyond a few prototypes. Once the enormity of the costs begins to set it, combined with US refusal for key technology access, they will abandon it.

I beg to differ. The South Koreans are very capable have a strong economic base. The lack of access is likely why the aircraft looks the way it does in modern concepts with conventional external pods as opposed to internally integrated systems. By being as it is I think the ROK engineering team is making enough cuts to keep it functional, and viable as a program with a firm understanding of its limitations of employment.

TerraN_EmpirE said:

The South Koreans.... have a strong economic base.

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Strong economic base, but not enough domestic orders to achieve economy of scale.

I suppose that's precisely why Indonesia's participation and 50 unit orders was so important to achieving reasonable economy of scale and manageable per-unit costs.

Phead128 said:

Strong economic base, but not enough domestic orders to achieve economy of scale.

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There are reasonable chances orders will come after its entry into service. And ROKAF order isn't a shabby start, we are talking about significant fighter strength here.
Gripen survived(and now it is fairly likely to get a national replacement), why kfx can't do the same?

Aircraft itself is fairly reasonable, but status of a new manufacturer will anchor them tightly until then.

Gloire_bb said:

Gripen survived(and now it is fairly likely to get a national replacement), why kfx can't do the same?

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Gripen is from Sweden, and last I checked, Sweden is not a US ally so it has no access to F-16's or F-35's. It also faces Russia, the #2 airforce in the world.

Meanwhile, South Korea is a major US ally with access to F-16's and F-35's, and faces virtually zero challenges from North Korea in the air domain.

Necessity is the mother of invention. South Korea is in a completely different geopolitical context than Sweden.

Phead128 said:

Sweden is not a US ally so it has no access to F-16's or F-35's.

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Oh, Sweden simply needs to ask: don't bother with this neutral marker on them or Finland, it isn't a restriction. They simply try to keep the capability at home.
Gripen itself is full of US tech. To the point i'd actually question, should such competition arise, whom will actually get more. Korean quest for US aerospace technology was quite painful.

Phead128 said:

Meanwhile, South Korea is a major US ally with access to F-16's and F-35's, and faces virtually zero challenges from North Korea in the air domain.

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...as well as friendly China and the very same Russia, because being US ally comes with obligations.
And, potentially, even with Japan, despite the fact that both are US allies. Not too probable, but enough to factor it in.

They say these are new photos, vertical stabilizers. There's also 2nd prototype being assembled?

Does KFX have any sort of intake signature management? From this angle kinda looks like there aren't any