Some noob questions and clarification about the DMZ

DPRKPTboat said:

The U.S. believes one in every four artillery rounds contains a chemical or biological warhead. I know that may sound hard to beleive, given Iraq's invisible WMD, but North Korea is known to have one of the worlds largest colections of chemical weapons, such as chlorine or mustard gas. It also has an active biological weapons programme, which has produced agents such as Anthrax, Salmnella and Botcholism, although this programme is not as well developed as the chemical programme.

Click to expand...

Well it would be a highly risky (if not stupid) thing to use them on civilian targets - sorry if you didn't mean you thought they would. It would almost guarantee the US/"Allies" overthrowing the Pyongyang regime.

It is conceivable that North Korea could launch an attack on the South in the near future, but I doubt that it could win. China won't come to its aid like it did in the 1950s if the North is the aggressor. When you're poor you have nothing to lose - when you're getting wealthy you're constantly looking at your bank balance.

DPRKPTboat said:

. But by the time they reach their targets, the KPA will ahve had the cahnce to fire plety of shells and missiles at South korea. Most of these weapons are aimed at targets in Seoul, and the sites that use long range weapons such as the Nodong or Taepo-dong missile are probably aimed at Tokyo aswell...

Click to expand...

I don't really see what purpose blowing the hell out of Seoul and Tokyo would serve the KPA. A few guns and missle batteries targeting Seoul and some Nodongs and Taepo-dongs fired and Tokyo would create valueable chaos and fear, but I believe that the vast majority of the North's resources would be used to break holes in the defences in order to use their superior numbers. The North would probably use all the resources thaat it has to get to Seoul quickly, because that would give it a bargaining chip and a strategic advantage because they would be in control of the Han River valley. If they waste time and ammo destroying population centers their artillery will be destroyed by the bombers you talked about and any chance for a breakthrough and quick capture of Seoul would be lost. And that is pretty much the only chance the North has for victory. However...

Kim Jong is a crazy mofo

Click to expand...

so trying to predict the North's moves is difficult.

Kim Jong-il's crazy, but not suicidal. (At least I don't think so)

I don't have the confidence to say that he wouldn't use them (nukes), but I'm pretty sure he wouldn't use them for no good reason, unless he's already being invaded. I'm sure one of his primary goals is to unify with the South, life's been very hard for the North (but not the high officials) especially since most of the land best suited for agriculture is located in the South, whereas the North has more natural resources.

However, his biggest goal is to keep power, if Korea unifies then who would lead? The "western" world no doubt would oppose Kim, and he can't have that. So anyway what he's looking for is to have Korea united, with him as the head. Unless somebody forces his hand by invading North Korea, I don't think he's going to ruin things by nuking South Korea, it's more of a revenge or deterrence act against the US.

I think I'm just stating the obvious, though...

About the nuke thing...

It definately depends on the circumstances of the conflict. If North Korea is invaded then Kim will use them. If not, he will use his conventional and possibly chemical stockpiles to secure Seoul and the Han River valley quickly as they are the key to the Peninsula.

Back to the conventional...
Assuming the KPA is successful in stage one of an attack (break through the DMZ and secure Seoul) it would sit on its gains and try to withstand counterattacks much like the Egyptians did in the Yom Kippur war. They probably would fail and then the Americans and ROK troops would probably go on to Pyongyang to destroy the Kim regime.
and if kim thinks he's going down, we all know what that means-mushroom cloud.

Finn McCool said:

I don't really see what purpose blowing the hell out of Seoul and Tokyo would serve the KPA. A few guns and missle batteries targeting Seoul and some Nodongs and Taepo-dongs fired and Tokyo would create valueable chaos and fear, but I believe that the vast majority of the North's resources would be used to break holes in the defences in order to use their superior numbers. The North would probably use all the resources thaat it has to get to Seoul quickly, because that would give it a bargaining chip and a strategic advantage because they would be in control of the Han River valley. If they waste time and ammo destroying population centers their artillery will be destroyed by the bombers you talked about and any chance for a breakthrough and quick capture of Seoul would be lost. And that is pretty much the only chance the North has for victory. However... so trying to predict the North's moves is difficult.

Click to expand...

That would seem like the logical thing to do, but from what the satellite images have told us, the majority of artillery and SCUDs are aimed at targets in Seoul. Remember that dictators like Kim Jong Il aren't the best at tactics - the KPA has fallen on bad times ever since Kim Il Sung put him in charge of the military. And theres no telling what a lunatic like that may think bombing Seoul will acheive. Don't forget, Saddam Hussein launched SCUDs at Israel during the 1st Gulf war and at Kuwait during the 2nd, and that wasn't the best of tactics. I think some of North Korea's bombers and artillery are aimed at miltary targets in the south side of the DMZ, however.
I've seen a sample of the KPA's tactics as laid out by Kim Jong Il, and they're probably the worst I've ever seen. Aparrently the invasion will start with several waves of airstrikes. The first wave consists of outdated MIG-15s, MIG-17s and J-6s, while the second wave consists of more modern aricraft such as MiG-29s, MiG-23s and Su-25s. MiG-21s and J-7s are being held in reserve to intercept enemy bombers heading for Py'yong'yang. It'll end in disaster for sure.



There's a little something here about the North Korean military. Not much, but infromative. There's alos imformation on the current situation in Korea and with the North's nuclear programme.

How did you get your hands on the north's plans for invasion? That's probably an interesting story.

I agree, causing chaos and destruction definately fits in with Kim's public persona. But if you read my earlier posts you'll find I don't really think Kim is nuts. He is eccentric (as anybody who orders the kiddnapping of a Japanese citizens to serve as his chef is.) Anyway, it wouldn't really matter because no matter which way you put he would lose. The KPA would probably fight really hard though.

Finn McCool said:

How did you get your hands on the north's plans for invasion? That's probably an interesting story.

I agree, causing chaos and destruction definately fits in with Kim's public persona. But if you read my earlier posts you'll find I don't really think Kim is nuts. He is eccentric (as anybody who orders the kiddnapping of a Japanese citizens to serve as his chef is.) Anyway, it wouldn't really matter because no matter which way you put he would lose. The KPA would probably fight really hard though.

Click to expand...

I can'r remember the site I read it off, but I think a visitor to North Korea visited a military base and a North korean officer gave a lecture on their possible options for attack. It didn't show all the North's tactics however.
I think as well as bombing Seoul, the KPA will try to create a path through the DMZ to South Korea, probably using short range artillery and heavy concentrations of armour, while the long range guns bombard Seoul and defences further south. But it won't be easy (Kim Jong Il does not have a huge, sun-beam firing satellite at his disposal as he did in die another day, lol :rofl: ) as there are a lot of mines to clear.
But as you said, when the U.S. and South Korean forces launch a counter-attack, then they will face fierce resistance. The North koreans will probably keep on fighting even when Pyongyang is captured, as the Iraqis did when Baghdad was captured. But fierce resistace alone can't win you a war, and often it puts safety and conservation of forces before fighting till the end. It didn't win the Iraqis or the Serbs the war against the U.S.
For info on the KPAF nad its cpabilties, heres a good site:



I would recommend this site to anyone who is looking up Air force info.

I read something in an issue of National Geographic about the North - South divide and tensions in Korea. Heres the related sites. Theres also links to a lot of other useful sites.



There is another site, but you have to be a member of highbeam research to read all of the article I read. Here it is:

DPRKPTboat said:

(Kim Jong Il does not have a huge, sun-beam firing satellite at his disposal as he did in die another day, lol :rofl: ) as there are a lot of mines to clear.

Click to expand...

They may not have a giant sun-beam but they do have the next best thing. A giant army of ill-trained conscripts to clear the mines with pure patriotism! FOR THE GREAT LEADER! CHARGE!:roll:

I think the most deadly part of the Korean War: The Sequel would be the Allied counterattack. North Korea is not the ideal territory to be attacking. Especially when the crazy man with pointy hair has nukes and missles. It would be far different from the charge to Baghdad. The Allied forces would have to go back through the DMZ and the tunnel-fortresses on the North side, through the ridges and hills of North Korea, which is much more mountainous than the South, probably in winter, fighting of KPA attacks on the flanks and supply lines all the while. Meanwhile, a volley of missles would hit Tokyo, devastating Ginza district.Heavy street fighting would happen in the capital, much like Seoul in 1950. Imagine, Abrams rolling down the wide, tree-lined propaganda boulevards of Pyongyang. The Allies would have to drive all the way to the Yalu. Not a pretty picture. But I don't think Kim would be dumb enough to start it.