Sino-India conflict

ArjunMk1 said:

Actually neither China nor India released official record of 62's war !! But India is a multi party Democracy so she has to release the casualty figures while China being a Communist nation has no such urge, and in Chian Kaishek's time, things were tougher !!!

The details story of Indian war is reconstructed from the memories of veterans and journalists no effort has been made from Government . In Chinese side only a few defence specialist narrate their story , which is very much blurr and appears to be sensored !!!

But I personally feel that Chinese attack on Indians was one of her greatest blunders , she lost her ablest frend of Asia and the whole developing world !!

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There are plenty stories of chinese side, but we use chinese and not english, so it's much less accessble for foreigners. The fact that India is a democracy doesn't mean their figures is right, each side will always keep its own story.

At that time India wasn't acting like a friend, the 'forward policy' pushed china too far, the war secured china's southwest boarder and tibet area.

Mr taijisheng, your source doesnt mention its sources. The only mention are : Chinese casualties 3000; Indian casualties 3000.

Such frivolous claims must be backed by credible sources; otherwise they are nothing but pixel illuminations on the monitor.

My source is a much larger research paper by a US military officer. He has also provided sources, and hence I believe that is more credible.

Chinese are not taller, stronger, faster than Indians. They won the war simply because they outnumbered Indian forces (upto 20:1 in some theatres), not to mention their superior firepower.

I request the Chinese members to devote at least 15-30 minutes to patiently read the neutral research paper that I provided.
It has been mentioned how often entire Chinese regiments/brigades etc. were against Indian guard posts and small camps.

Speaking of Democracy, few years after the war ended, India's film industry made a film on it titled "Haqeeqat" (meaning reality).
It shows how Indian positions were overrun by Chinese and how Chinese troops used to shout "Hindi-Cheeni Bhai-bhai..." (meaning, Indians, Chinese brothers-brothers...).

Had China lost the war, there would have been a law in China forbidding its discussion like the law on discussing Holocaust in Europe. I can say so with conviction knowing the nature of the CCP.

Indianfighter said:

Mr taijisheng, your source doesnt mention its sources. The only mention are : Chinese casualties 3000; Indian casualties 3000.

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It's not my source, I know some chinese websites but I didn't provide a source, I only know there is no official figure provided by china.

My source is a much larger research paper by a US military officer. He has also provided sources, and hence I believe that is more credible.

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" US .. " and "truth" , these two words are in my opinion quite opposite to each other...maybe you want to believe whatever the americans says, I certainly don't.

Chinese are not taller, stronger, faster than Indians. They won the war simply because they outnumbered Indian forces (upto 20:1 in some theatres), not to mention their superior firepower.

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No, but chinese soldiers are more diciplined, and the PLA at that time was simply more superior, look at the wars they have been through, first against japanese, then KWT army, then the US army. And how many wars did the Indian army had at that time ? To hide behind such excuses as being outnumberd and outgunned is lame, its like a boxer lost a fight then says he didn't prepare it well.

Had China lost the war, there would have been a law in China forbidding its discussion like the law on discussing Holocaust in Europe. I can say so with conviction knowing the nature of the CCP.

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China lost in the opnium war, and couldn't prevent a japanese invasion, and there are plenty of movies made about those lost wars. Chinese don't deny defeats, becuase we learn from them. If you fool yourself by denying the defeats, you will never learn from them.

You know very little about China or the CCP, it may not be democratic, but it can face the fact.In the vietnam war, china suffered heavy casualty, nobody denied, because it really happened, vietnamese army was very wel prepared against a chinese invasion and made the best usage of the terrain, the vietnamese army at that time had extensive fighting experiences while the chinese army hadn't had a war for more than 10 years and all the good officers were fired in culture revolution. But in the sino-indian war, a better trained chinese army, with superior equipment and number, with terrain advantage, with advantage of suprise, sufferred heavy casualty while overrunning the poor trained, unprepared, low-moral,poor-supplied Indian army ??? get real, it's not what happened.

taijisheng said:

I don't get why Indian side keeps repeating how they were outnumbered in the war, as if it's therefor not their fault to have lost the war, well, to outnumber your enemy is part of a general's job, its part of the war.

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Its actually the fault of Indian politicians !!!

Indian Political leadership could never estimate the depth of the situation , neither there was adequate intelligence info. They put those ill armed , ill clad soldiers to some what called 'aggressive patrolling' !!! Also the troop's position was determined by the political leaders , for example troops were deployed in open valleyes , river banks , when the hills at both sides were left for the Chinese to occupy!

Actually the political leadership was so di-illusioned in 'Indi-Chini bhai bhai' concept that they thought China will never attack , also they ignored what ever little intellegence that was available about Chinese built up .

ArjunMk1 said:

Its actually the fault of Indian politicians !!!
Actually the political leadership was so di-illusioned in 'Indi-Chini bhai bhai' concept that they thought China will never attack , also they ignored what ever little intellegence that was available about Chinese built up .

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I never understood the concept of 'Indi-Chini bhai bhai', really, if two Indian 'bhai' have a dispute over a piece of land, one can just take it without thinking, and the other will just do nothing ?

ArjunMk1 said:

Its actually the fault of Indian politicians !!!
Also the troop's position was determined by the political leaders , for example troops were deployed in open valleyes , river banks , when the hills at both sides were left for the Chinese to occupy!

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I can hardly belive it, the political leaders tell the army where to delopy ???
and how about the army officers, they don't know uphills is a safer position than down in the river bank ? I can't believe the politicians can control the army at that low level, even the CCP, which has a party officer at company level, can't tell the captain to do that.

Hello there,

This is my first post on this forum (infact my first day).

Can someone post what this page is about? this is posted in the first link of this thread


I am interested in the last set of pictures that show some IAF related helicopters. can anyone tell me what the accompanying text says?

While I am at it, i would like to add to Arjun's post. While india never published an official account, its ministry of defence did put together an official history of the war that was never published. however a few years ago it has been 'leaked' by a leading newspaper and now it is available for download on the Bharat-Rakshak website.

As far as indian casualities are concerned, the names of the soldiers lost and missing in teh war can be queried from .

regards

Jagan

Apologies,

I found the 'translated' link from the second post and have been able to understand it to an extent.

However the machine translated text really does notmake much sense..

"then Mr. Carr will ride Soviet assistance from the Soviet Union were still driving metres -8 are here inspections have reaction from the helicopter was on the Chinese army seized, causing Mr. Carr will ride the ox pull unit jeeps braved money, either one insert the company lost, Raul will be on the Chinese people are. This aircraft metres --8 helicopter is the only one China and seized the Indian army helicopters, the Chinese war of the TNI to announce the return of all seized equipment, but helicopters did not have. "

Where can one find the original film from which the screen shots have been taken from?

I wasn't gonna get invloved in the this heated debate but it seems some sone just doesn't have common sense. I won't say anynames.
First off its a fact IA was outnumbered during the initial confrontation. If you think they weren't then your seriously loosing common sense. Second they had inferior equipment. PLA attacked IA very strongly. IA retreated. I would too. PLA walked in unchallenged into a lot of Indian land. Now after that India recieved aid and ammunition. What happened next is IA moblized the army from Kashmir to the Indo-Tibeten bordar. Its a freakin fact that IA would have soldiers at the Pakistani bordar. Makes sence doesn't it? When the IA was moblized to fight the PLA with full force and romours that IAF will get involoved PLA moved back. Not just back but retreated from the land they claimed as theirs. IA never got the chance to get back at the PLA. PLA declared victory and India declared defeat because everything was a mess. After that you do remember 1967,1988 etc???

jatt said:

I wasn't gonna get invloved in the this heated debate but it seems some sone just doesn't have common sense. I won't say anynames.
First off its a fact IA was outnumbered during the initial confrontation. If you think they weren't then your seriously loosing common sense. Second they had inferior equipment. PLA attacked IA very strongly. IA retreated. I would too. PLA walked in unchallenged into a lot of Indian land. Now after that India recieved aid and ammunition. What happened next is IA moblized the army from Kashmir to the Indo-Tibeten bordar. Its a freakin fact that IA would have soldiers at the Pakistani bordar. Makes sence doesn't it? When the IA was moblized to fight the PLA with full force and romours that IAF will get involoved PLA moved back. Not just back but retreated from the land they claimed as theirs. IA never got the chance to get back at the PLA. PLA declared victory and India declared defeat because everything was a mess. After that you do remember 1967,1988 etc???

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I think you should ask yourself first. If you want a discussion, you should be more open mind. If you are already believe what you believe, that there are no point for debate. Jatt and india members if you think Indians are outnumber, Ok, believe what you told. If you think Indians have inferior equipment, find. If you think indians are better, great.

can we stop with the "Chinese out numbered Indian" crap? It's the same shit thrown around by the Americans when they had to do a unilateral retreat in Korea. Just because you read it from some bullshit Indian paper doesn't mean it's true (and just because there are lots of Indian papers doesn't mean they're all valid sources).

Chinese success stems from the same ABLE leadership that led the PVA counterattack against UN(US) forces in Korea. I think we should all keep in mind that Patton said "Undisciplined courage is useless in the face of educated bullets". Instead of keep quoting some Indians bitching and moaning about running from a Chinese offensive AFTER THEY LOST THE WAR, as two Indians members here REPEATED do, it's time to look at this in an academic manner (I realize that this is asking quite a bit from the aforementioned members).

Just to get this started, one of the primary, yet rarely mentioned, factors in the entire conflict is Zhou En Lai. I think members here, especially the Indians, should read into his diplomatic plays during the 6 months before the opening salvos.

Jagan said:

Hello there,
This is my first post on this forum (infact my first day).

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Jagan, arent you one of the admins at BR ? If yes, then nice to meet you.

Can you specifically tell about the troop deployments of China vis-a-vis India ? I posted a very detailed research paper by a US Navy personnel (1984), and it says that Indian troops were heavily outnumbered by Chinese troops at many fronts of the war.

If you have any information on that, it would be very helpful if you post it.

Thank you.

P.S The research paper is a few posts before this one.