Should china go for more J-8 or concerate on new desings like FC-1??

China came very close to purchasing the Mig-31 in the early 90's before it settled for the Su-27

It was very much for sale, but at the time China was looking for something a little more multi-role for its limited funds at the time and as such was not interested in spending big on a pure interceptor.

Nowdays its a different story.

chakos said:

China came very close to purchasing the Mig-31 in the early 90's before it settled for the Su-27

It was very much for sale, but at the time China was looking for something a little more multi-role for its limited funds at the time and as such was not interested in spending big on a pure interceptor.

Nowdays its a different story.

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I think Mig-31M is for sale or something. I did a check on foxhound a while back, it did seem like the Russians are willing to sell it. For sure, I'd rather have 1 regiment of Mig-31 than 5 regiments of J-8F.

As for FC-1, I think the thought is to use it against central Asian countries, Mongolia, Vietnam and you know - low countries.

tphuang said:

I think Mig-31M is for sale or something. I did a check on foxhound a while back, it did seem like the Russians are willing to sell it. For sure, I'd rather have 1 regiment of Mig-31 than 5 regiments of J-8F.

As for FC-1, I think the thought is to use it against central Asian countries, Mongolia, Vietnam and you know - low countries.

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china isnt going to have war whit "low countries" any time soon. can u offer proof of mig-31 sale status? i saw one sight that said russia sold 24 to china, but i dont believe it. i especially dont believe the russians would sell a radar as good as the zaslon to any nation.

"MiG-31Eh: Ehksport (export) version for China, proposed 2000, and announced at Zhuhai Air Show 6 November 2000."

chakos said:

China came very close to purchasing the Mig-31 in the early 90's before it settled for the Su-27

It was very much for sale, but at the time China was looking for something a little more multi-role for its limited funds at the time and as such was not interested in spending big on a pure interceptor.

Nowdays its a different story.

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no, it was the mig-29 or su-27. politics won the sukoi the main deal. the su-27 isnt much more multirole than the mig-31. its just single mission air-superirority fighter.

chakos said:

As far as i am concerned and i am not picking sides here at all, the Indians did a brilliant job of their Mig-21 upgrades and really have no need whatsoever for the LCA anyway.
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If that was not achievable i would be buying the licence to the Mig-31 and getting rid of the J-8 altogether.

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IMO the upgraded MiG-21's have good capability, but they're still old aircraft with lots of hours on the airframe. The LCA is, at the very least, brand new and prolly safer to fly than MiG-21's.

As for the PLAAF selection of Su-27 over MiG-31, I think it's a correct decision because the Su-27 is far more widely exported, and has a lot of Russian and 3rd party development going for it. The same could be said for MiG-29, but not the MiG-31.

MIGleader said:

chinas's not at a lack for money $$$
it needs to concentrate on saving funds for much more avanced weapons and projects that will rival the u.s or europe. the entire concept of a "cheap and huge military" is completely cold war ideology. moder doctrines reflect a need for smaller, more advanced forces.

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nah thats not what I meant, I know China doesnt lack money, im just saying that China can use that money in a better way...

Yea i know cheap and huge military is the past, like Mao's doctrine of "THE PEOPLE'S WAR" is pretty obsolete too, China should take the FC-1 instead of the Jian-8 is the same reason what you said... --->

MIGleader said:

moder doctrines reflect a need for smaller, more advanced forces.

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---> the FC-1 has more fighting capabilities and already builting for export, look at the weapons that the FC-1 can use and not the Jian-8, isnt that a good enough explaination?

If that was not achievable i would be buying the licence to the MiG-31 and getting rid of the J-8 altogether.

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Sure why not, the MiG-31 has a powerful radar and can band together to track, and a license is better than just purchase, since a copy can fire Chinese weapons, the MiG-31 can also can roam and loiter in the skies and in case of a future war against any country, those things with their LRAAMs can take out bombers or even slow transport planes, they are modernized interceptors and they can wipe out incoming drones and such, if they cant, get a modernized version, itz always good to have a Mach2.8+ plane to go into speedy interceptions, since they DO have their powerful radar to back themselves up.

As for the PLAAF selection of Su-27 over MiG-31, I think it's a correct decision because the Su-27 is far more widely exported, and has a lot of Russian and 3rd party development going for it. The same could be said for MiG-29, but not the MiG-31.

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and your point? China only needs like 24-48 of them... they are tactical planes, like the MiG-25(Version D) and the SR-71, they have a specific role and their numbers are limited due to their task, a license copy lets China to modify and solve the "problems" that China might have, such as weaponry

Chairman Hu said:

nah thats not what I meant, I know China doesnt lack money, im just saying that China can use that money in a better way...

Yea i know cheap and huge military is the past, like Mao's doctrine of "THE PEOPLE'S WAR" is pretty obsolete too, China should take the FC-1 instead of the Jian-8 is the same reason what you said... ---> ---> the FC-1 has more fighting capabilities and already builting for export, look at the weapons that the FC-1 can use and not the Jian-8, isnt that a good enough explaination?

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you kinda missed my point...the fc-1 may be superior to the j-8(which is true), but both fighters are unnecassery. the fc-1 represents a cheap, capable fighter capacble of being produced in large #'s. such a concept is indeed "people's war" ideology. just like the type 59 and ak-47. g2g...il ad more later.

no no i use kinda misunderstood it...

well when it comes to "you dont need both" you kinda do, I mean, especially in the navy, sometimes itz good to have a load of cheap and efficient goods, I mean I rather have 4 FC-1s to sink a destroyer or something than have a destroyer.

Now we are in a discussion on WHEN is the cheap large army style needed

The J-8 flies faster, higher, and farther than the FC-1, but it has not the agility or manuverbility. (What's the difference between agility and manuverbility?)
We can't really compare radar abilities, though, since FC-1 have radar options.
But since it's J-8F, you can be pretty sure the J-8F has a better radar performance.

As for the 20 million cost, yea right.
The FC-1 has a lower operating cost, but as for reliability, I wouldn't count on it yet. China has already been operating J-8Bs, so it's much more pilot-friendly. Also, FC-1 is a new plane, and new planes will face problems that will need to be fixed.

But China should buy the J-8F for 2 reasons:
1. it's familiar.
2. it's a great combo with the J-7. (Like the Hurricanes and Spitfires!)
And unless you retire both J-7 and J-8, it isn't worth it to get FC-1s.
The J-8F is enough for China's defence.

And BTW, you can't bomb ships with LGBs anymore.

Nice comparison with the IDF by the way.
PRC:FC-1::ROC:IDF::India:LCA