Shenyang next gen combat aircraft thread

Steven D

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Firstly I think the porous section on the back is likely used as a “exhaust”, if you will, of the boundary suction plate on the intake wall, and doesn’t suck BL from the back of the aircraft.

Also if you manually remove BL on the top of the fuselage in a high AoA case the low-pressure region becomes worse no? I’m a bit rusty on aerodynamics but iirc boundary layer suction on fuselage or aerodynamic surfaces is primarily to improve cruise efficiency and not high AoA performance (as laminar flow tends to detach sooner than turbulent flow)
That is what boundary layer suction is used for commercial airliners. But to use boundary layer suction to delay flow seperation was the actual purporse of it when founded by the aerodynamic engineer Prandtl himself.

From text Aerodynamics for engineering students chapter 9 Flow Control and Wing Design:
1758868310802.png
 

Schwerter_

Junior Member
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That is what boundary layer suction is used for commercial airliners. But to use boundary layer suction to delay flow seperation was the actual purporse of it when founded by the aerodynamic engineer Prandtl himself.

From text Flow Control and Wing Design:
View attachment 161589
Wow thanks, this is why I’m salty that my college stopped doing fighter related courses, I’m missing out on all the good stuff
 

00CuriousObserver

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My biggest question is the number of pilots. If a second pilot is emphasized with the J-36, then why does this aircraft only have one (seemingly)? A two-seat variant is certainly not out of the question, but we shall see.
 

latenlazy

Brigadier
Wow thanks, this is why I’m salty that my college stopped doing fighter related courses, I’m missing out on all the good stuff
I was going to comment that suction from the top might pull air back toward the over body surface but it seems Steven D has direct citations on this. That said I imagine whether sucking or venting helps with maintaining attached flow depends on the specific conditions, so in fact if you can model out some aerodynamic states and figure out a set of control laws being able to both vent and suck might contribute quite a lot to expanding usable flight envelope. You might also be able do something about inlet stalls sucking air from the top into the inlet face or sucking choked flow from the inlet face up through the top, and if this is the case that capability should also help greatly with expanding the operational margins for the engines. If there are internal bleeds for diverting air from the top and side pores elsewhere you can even control how much air is moved around to get finer control over the inlet and over body flow field. The local pressure distribution from the inlet face to the inlet top essentially becomes one fluidic control system. The general principle I’m thinking here is that stall conditions are when the localized pressure distribution essentially causes the air stream to lose momentum so venting and sucking act as ways to re-energize airflow. After all a stall is precisely the flow field condition where the air stream’s relative momentum breaks so the air essentially has nowhere to go, so if you give the air somewhere to go you should be able to recover a moving flow field.
 
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Syrida2887

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My biggest question is the number of pilots. If a second pilot is emphasized with the J-36, then why does this aircraft only have one (seemingly)? A two-seat variant is certainly not out of the question, but we shall see.
It's not as huge as the J-36,that's why it apply single seat without back seat operator,and just like F-35,perhaps the avionics AI can help it fight with UCAVs,which different from another project.(China's aviation research institutions have always been at the forefront of Technology,even if the material conditions are backward, they are still catching up with the trend.There is no reason not to combine new concepts to the latest advanced project results.)
 

Blitzo

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My biggest question is the number of pilots. If a second pilot is emphasized with the J-36, then why does this aircraft only have one (seemingly)? A two-seat variant is certainly not out of the question, but we shall see.

Each aircraft would likely have different respective emphasis on degree of command+control and EW, situational awareness, drone control demands.
Even assuming that the onboard "processing" is the same and they have the same datalinks (though sensor size, sensor variety, weapons bays/variety are of course going to be different not to mention range and endurance etc), the rate limiting step for the degree of those aforementioned capabilities will be the number of humans in the cockpit.


The question is whether it makes sense for a given airframe to add a second human or not (and depending on the rest of the aircraft's role, design, characteristics, it might not make sense to).
 

Steven D

New Member
Registered Member
I was going to comment that suction from the top might pull air back toward the over body surface but it seems Steve D has direct citations on this. That said I imagine whether sucking or venting helps with maintaining attached flow depends on the specific conditions, so in fact if you can model out some aerodynamic states and figure out a set of control laws being able to both vent and suck might contribute quite a lot to expanding usable flight envelope. You might also be able do something about inlet stalls sucking air from the top into the inlet face or sucking choked flow from the inlet face up through the top, and if this is the case that capability should also help greatly with expanding the operational margins for the engines. If there are internal bleeds for diverting air from the top and side pores elsewhere you can even control how much air is moved around to get finer control over the inlet and over body flow field. The local pressure distribution from the inlet face to the inlet top essentially becomes one fluidic control system. The general principle I’m thinking here is that stall conditions are when the localized pressure distribution essentially causes the air stream to lose momentum so venting and sucking act as ways to re-energize airflow. After all a stall is precisely the flow field condition where the air stream’s relative momentum breaks so the air essentially has nowhere to go, so if you give the air somewhere to go you should be able to recover a moving flow field.
If we use flow over an airfoil as an example, then to keep flow from seperating blowing is best located at the leading edge ( ie. slots) and suction is best located close to the trailing edge where the flow is nearly developed to seperate. That being said, for blowing to work the blowing airflow needs to be in direction of the flow above the body, not perpendicular to the skin. If we can get more detailed photos to see the orientations of the holes on the panel we might get a decisive conclusion on this.
 
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