Shenyang FC-31 / J-31 Fighter Demonstrator

paintgun said:

btw, the KF-X is slated to be at the same size and class with pretty much the same capabilities, at 50 mil a pop

if SAC manages to launch this bird earlier, i'd hate to be the Koreans
but they got an excellent marketing

this PR move by SAC is pretty bold, and they are riding the high wind of J-20
i guess the mum by international aerospace sites is telling, that any coverage would only be helping SAC's exposures
and companies usually have to pay top dollars for it

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KF-X will have too much american stuff on there to be competitive.

Its true "international" fighter competitor would be Gripen NG.

I think it's the perfect atmosphere to generate hypothesis on where this bird will be placed. There is so much mystery behind the fifth generation fighter program in China.

I'm Canadian and Discovery channel plays the 1-hour special on Mega Ships *US carriers* and stealth aircraft *F111 & F22*.
If only CCTV did the same? or do they? I duno.

Just to comment about the plane itself. It seems as though SAC has stepped away from the forward control plane/canard *comment based off of the approximate renderings/drawings shown previously*. Advantages and disadvantages to this aero-configuration?

drunkmunky said:

I think it's the perfect atmosphere to generate hypothesis on where this bird will be placed. There is so much mystery behind the fifth generation fighter program in China.

I'm Canadian and Discovery channel plays the 1-hour special on Mega Ships *US carriers* and stealth aircraft *F111 & F22*.
If only CCTV did the same? or do they? I duno.

Just to comment about the plane itself. It seems as though SAC has stepped away from the forward control plane/canard *comment based off of the approximate renderings/drawings shown previously*. Advantages and disadvantages to this aero-configuration?

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CCTV also replays Discovery stuff on its channels some times.

SAC never was big on canards. they were firm believer in not to try anything radical. for a while in 90s they really backed away from aerodynamics and configurations research. believing instead future of air combat lies in avionics and electronics.

I don't think CAC only believes in aerodynamics only, if they are smart they used physics superiority of their plane to win over PLAAF first which is a major victory over Shenyang. Advanced electronics and avionics can always be included later. Once that is done Shenyang will no longer have advantage.

70092 said:

More information about this fighter, from the official website of the company who transported the fighter:

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From their website, there are some interesting information about the fighter:

The fighter has a wing span of 11.5 meter, comparing to F-35's 10.7 meter, MiG-29's 11.4 meter or Hongdu's L-15's 9.5 meter.

The official name for the figther should be called as some sort of eagles.

It is confirmed the fighter is transported from Shengyang's SAC to Yanliang's national insistute of structral strength to conduct static stress test.

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Guy, I followed your link and saw nothing!

An off-topic question: Has KF-X managed to get any fuselage?

paintgun said:

SAC screwing up all the time is a bit too harsh, and they deserve credit for the J-11
50 mil is a pretty nice number to pitch, it's not my estimation, but a semi-official price figure of the cost per aircraft
i share your pessimism however, their T-50 LIFT/trainer is 25 mil a pop, no way the KF-X will sell only at double

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More than that, Koreans' aviation industry is heavily supported and restricted by US. KFX will be very similar to T-50/F-2, if a country is not on the clients list of US, either it's defined as unfriendly country or directly compete with US companies, Koreans couldn't go any further.

to add up, they have to compete with F-35 in traditionally US clients market
their effort at promoting the T-50 impressed me, but to be pitted against such a flagship like the F-35 is a very daunting prospect

the only way for aircrafts like KF-X and F-60 to compete is through cost, there are a multitudes of offering in capabilities and customers will not have a hard time choosing from
even then it's not the decisive factor, otherwise Gripen would have had much more export successes

political weight, lobbies, and snake oiling trumps competitive and qualitative assessments

and then, SAC have to factor in another roadblock, the major challenge for any Chinese fighter export to date :
switching to Chinese line of maintenance and logistics

I am kind of skeptical about the KF-X. Read a couple articles about it and it seems that it fits the role of a 4th gen fighter than a 5th gen. South Koreans expect the KF-X to be less stealthy than the F-35 which is not that stealth itself. South Korea also never built any advanced 4th gen fighters so they are pretty much trying to jump to the 5th gen stage without a proper, advanced 4th gen fighter. If this "jump" is possible then I think China would of gone that route.
My point is that KF-X can lower their costs but lowering costs does not guarantee customers. Other countries are not dumb, they obviously want the most out of their money.

what the Koreans has done with KF-X is selling the product before it is launched and entice customers with technology cooperation partnership framework
this also work as product development risk sharing strategy and helps to lower the cost of total units production

they got the Indonesians through with this, with commitment for 50 units
the Turks however is not sold with the idea

that is their 'pre-launch' business strategy, how they sell KF-X after development might probably mirror their current T-50 strategy, ties it with other procurements
you buy mine, i buy yours with other benefits

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Shenyang's F-60 could not go this way, as it is a finished product and China is not keen to sharing high tech to anyone soon

Pakistan is out of the question with this framework, they are also squarely in CAC's pocket
China's traditional market is predominantly low tech as even the JF-17 is finding a tough sell (wonder who's buying that 50 units recently)

the only way i think SAC could find an export with this plane is to fight it head to head with Western planes
prove it's a quality stuff at half the price, and PLAAF/PLAN must induct it to ensure logistics/maintenance concern

countries like Qatar/KSA/UAE might be the right place to start if they are having the mood to go non-US (like recent Leopard2 deal)

Which KF-X? The original or all these pics of late Frankensteining every stealth fighter out there as different variants?