Shenyang FC-31 / J-31 Fighter Demonstrator

siegecrossbow said:

Marking this post for January 11th, 2021.

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or Nov 11th, XD
honestly, do we have any new updates on the status for the new jet besides 2021?

anyway, I hope PLA could honer their conservative tradition on the naming convention by granted the new jet with the name of "J-21", both 31 and 35 sounds too much like an American copycat, plus it would make a good coincidence with the year

stannislas said:

or Nov 11th, XD
honestly, do we have any new updates on the status for the new jet besides 2021?

anyway, I hope PLA could honer their conservative tradition on the naming convention by granted the new jet with the name of "J-21", both 31 and 35 sounds too much like an American copycat, plus it would make a good coincidence with the year

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Give it the prefix J/Q to achieve maximum American copycatness.

Recently there was a news snippet that JF-17 will be getting RD-93ma with a higher thrust ratio. Is it possible J-31 also gets the same engine since J-31 also uses RD-93? If so what will be the performance improvement and where does that leave J-10. Does this also solidify J-31 as carrier borne fighter.

ikaleem said:

Recently there was a news snippet that JF-17 will be getting RD-93ma with a higher thrust ratio. Is it possible J-31 also gets the same engine since J-31 also uses RD-93? If so what will be the performance improvement and where does that leave J-10. Does this also solidify J-31 as carrier borne fighter.

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How's that compared to WS13E and WS19?

Orthan said:

topwar article about the j-31. It talks about problems with the j-31 program and that the j-31 is not much superior to the mig-29k.

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To the people who know about j-31, what do you think of it? does he makes valid points or not?

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Make no sense at all. Russia well known for knocking on China hardwares. Sour grape.
Many inside China said J31 has even superior stealth than j20 and that alone already vastly superior than MIG29 which is a conventional plane. Even if J31 has less power , range and other factors than MIG29. Stealth alone will make J31 a better superiority fighter than MIG29. Plus j31 will be equipped with AESA , super long range AAM and MIG doesn't. No match in my pov.

In China reg flag exercise no j10C,j16, Su35 can match against j20.

Simply, non stealth versus stealth is generally no comparison.

WS19 is ready and enable it to supercruise.
Other than less range and payload, I won't be surprised if J31 come out on top of j20.

nastya1 said:

Make no sense at all. Russia well known for knocking on China hardwares. Sour grape.
Many inside China said J31 has even superior stealth than j20 and that alone already vastly superior than MIG29 which is a conventional plane. Even if J31 has less power , range and other factors than MIG29. Stealth alone will make J31 a better superiority fighter than MIG29. Plus j31 will be equipped with AESA , super long range AAM and MIG doesn't. No match in my pov.

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It's comparing apple with orange... j31 is a technology demonstrator, it will be more intelligent to compare it with the japanese X-2 Shinshin... We will see the fruit of this design when the real carrier prototype will be tested. Mig-29 is indeed a conventional plane, maybe vastly upgraded, but it's just a stopgap fighter for the Russian until the new generation come-in.

Atomicfrog said:

It's comparing apple with orange... j31 is a technology demonstrator, it will be more intelligent to compare it with the japanese X-2 Shinshin... We will see the fruit of this design when the real carrier prototype will be tested. Mig-29 is indeed a conventional plane, maybe vastly upgraded, but it's just a stopgap fighter for the Russian until the new generation come-in.

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Nah, everybody in China knows j15 can't match F35 in the sea. Probably not even the superhornet
J31 was a demo when it wasn't decided whether modified j20 or j31 become naval fighter, but now it's all decided.
J31 is currently promoted to a must have.

nastya1 said:

Nah, everybody in China knows j15 can't match F35 in the sea. Probably not even the superhornet
J31 was a demo when it wasn't decided whether modified j20 or j31 become naval fighter, but now it's all decided.
J31 is currently promoted to a must have.

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Stealth doesn't make you undetectable, it makes you undistinguishable. If a realistic midair skirmish were to happen out at sea today, J-15s with AESA radars will be backed up by AWACS, in essence tracking F-35s from 2-3 aspects. Combine that with the AWACS's data fusion capabilities and there is no way the F-35 goes undetected. Add in optical sensors as well as ground radar and the probability of an F-35 remaining undetected is almost impossible. The KJ-600 is more of a must have over a stealth fighter.

As for straight up comparisons between the J-15 and the Rhino, well they're both formidable 4.5 generation fighters and highly capable in the BVR fight. If they ever ended up in the merge, well the Flanker excels at a rate fight and the Rhino excels at a radius fight. It'll come down to the pilot's skill, experience, as well as a bit of luck to outwit the opponent and come out on top. Even when the J-35 reaches initial operating capability, I'd imagine they'd be deployed alongside J-15s for a while until the PLAN adopts a completely stealth fleet of strike fighters.

Just as @Atomicfrog mentioned, the FC-31 is a tech demonstrator. I wouldn't compare it to the F-35, but rather Lockheed Martin's X-35 or Boeing's X-32. China is still new to the stealth game, and so the FC-31 really is more of a testing platform to see what systems/functions/design work and what doesn't. More importantly it'll allow the PLA to figure out what they want in the J-31/J-35, and also allowing allies (specifically Pakistan, Iran.... maybe Saudi and Turkey) a chance to see specific configurations and offerings they might want should the FC-31 be made available for export.

But still to compare a non-existent (as of yet) fighter with an antique (Mig-29) is stupid already.

A squadron of Mig-29s wouldn't even stand a chance against a few J-10C. There is no comparison. Radar and weapons trump all in 4th gen with all factors being equal and no wonder equipment with magical properties like SPECTRA .

1 vs 1 comparison (ignoring many important aspects of a fighter beyond pure 1 vs 1 A2A performance), a J-10C would be able to detect a Mig-29 and attack it almost as effectively as if the J-10C was a F-22. There is hardly any difference unless we're talking Mig-35 with upgraded radars. The older Mig-29s may as well be looking for an F-22 if it's up against a J-10C with two PL-15s. J-10C AESA will pick up the Mig with its enormous RCS and fire two PL-15s (it could carry four and three tanks) before the Mig even realises what's happening. Mig-29s could not even touch F-16s and F-15s from the 1990s and comparing it with what is supposed to be the completed J-31? Only the most devoted fanboy could entertain such a ridiculous notion.

J-11A vs Gripen C BVR, J-11A gets deeeeestroyed even if it carries x times more missiles and y times greater range etc etc. That's how modern air combat is. That radar and missile upgrade goes VERY far when we're staying in 4th gen. Comparing early to mid 4th gen to late 4.5 gen is almost like 4.5th vs 5th when doing 1 vs 1. Maybe the author means Mig-35 but I'd still put all my money on a J-10C knocking out a Mig-35. Mig-35 has a first gen Russian AESA (Russia's first fighter AESA) which the Russians themselves have yet to use in upgrading older frames or purchasing in numbers. It has two generations old BVR missiles with half the range at best of PL-15 and a fraction of their sophistication (jam resistance, dual seekers, terminal phase boost). When it comes to comparing 4th gens, the Russians go with heavy weight twin engine fighters. Chinese copies and variants of domesticated flankers like J-16 are too similar against Russian fighters that are superior to Mig-29 like the Su-35 and Su-30BM variants. Those are different beasts.

The Mig-29 was quite a rubbish fighter to be honest. Their extremely short useful range was so limiting they redesigned the Fulcrum with "conformal tanks" built into the spine. Russian Flankers and Fulcrums (with few exceptions) don't carry tanks. It was good for European frontlines and positioning in East Germany but both Russia and China knew the Sukhoi design was the only real fighter worth getting especially when the Fulcrum wasn't much cheaper and the maintenance was as demanding as the Flanker. Mig-35 has modernised the platform well but it's actually really expensive, still got a large RCS, and isn't even capable of using the R-37. Similar engines (albeit improved) and similarly limiting range.

The Mig-29 was always a fighter that had a narrow array of strengths and really had to be applied within a small range of circumstances. It depended a lot on its good turning performance but most frontline fighters have their particular kinematic strengths. It just didn't have the range or the electronic sophistication until the Mig-35 upgrade which at best only gets it up to par with where the other 4.5 gen fighters are at. It's a very inflexible fighter where the pilot can't really stay around, can't get super high and fast to drop a dozen A2As like the Flankers can, can't really stay in a fight for long, and has no electronic tricks that other fighters don't have either more or better of.

Instead of building 400 J-20s, China can build 200 units and use the remaining money to research and develop the J-31.