Equation
Lieutenant General
Picture yes, but I was referring more to the program itself. I believe China is working on a J-18 STOVL program as we speak.
Shenyang FC-31 / J-31 Fighter Demonstrator
- Thread starter RedSky
- Start date
- Status
Picture yes, but I was referring more to the program itself. I believe China is working on a J-18 STOVL program as we speak.
Blackstone
Brigadier
And your believe is based on what evidence...?
I have no doubts that the PLAAF/PLANAF have studied it and may have a program.
How far along they are with it, and even if they have made a decision to actually produce it, is still unknown at this point.
Equation
Lieutenant General
Can you disprove it?
manqiangrexue
Brigadier
It's not a fair question to ask someone to disprove a secret program. You might have some evidence that it's active; that evidence may be insufficient to some, suggestive to others, "proof" to yet another crowd, and that is up for discussion but how do you disprove it? I couldn't disprove Santa Claus.
SinoSoldier
Colonel
I thought it is confirmed that development of such an aircraft had been approved (take a look at the first post of the V/STOL thread):
Apparently, the contract was signed on Feb 30, 2015 and was awarded to Chengdu. Work is currently being focused on the lift fan.
Equation
Lieutenant General
Yeah but at the same time it's not fair to ask someone (I'm not accusing you) to prove a secret program existence when evidence are very hard to come by.
I don't. You can only go there if your engines are World Class. That will happen, just not yet. What is such a STOVL jet supposed to do? That will even been the question when the right engines are available.
F-35B is being sold to USMC, they need it for political reasons, and UK because the government thought it could save money that way, and perhaps to Japan because its flattops are not supposed to be real aircraft carriers. All these reasons are irrelevant to China. That country is investing heavily in real aircraft carriers, an extremely expensive undertaking, and cannot afford to be side tracked by STOVL aircraft and the ships they would need.
This is fine.
No, the F-35B was developed for very practical and needed reasons, namely to replace the aging AV-8B fleet of 100 aircraft on US Navy LHDs and LHAs. Those are real aircraft with a real mission in the US doctrine and they needed replacement, This was not political.delft said:
It was about saving money and trying to change the doctrine...which that administration succeeded in doing. So they will get the B because they changed the carrier away from CATOBAR to STOBAR and the F-35B fit that bill.delft said:
If Japan gets them, it will indeed be because Japan makes the decision to put fixed wing aircraft on their Izumo and follow on carriers. And they will add a lot of capability to those carriers should they do so.delft said:
Let's not forget about Italy. They will be getting the Bravo too.
it is possible that Spain will ultimately get them to replace their Harriers too. Ultimately I believe they will...but they want to wait and see the price come down.
So, in the end, a very real possibility that the USMC, The Royal Navy, the JMSDF, the Italians, and the Spanish all buy the Bravo. That's a good thing for them given their current needs.
Agreed, they are not relevant to China's large carrier plans and ambitions.delft said:
But should China determine to have large LHDs and want to give them a fixed wing air support capability...then it would be relevant tot hat.
We just do not know yet if that is what the PRC intends.
plawolf
Lieutenant General
What is political is the senseless restriction placed on the USMC, effectively banning them from putting ski jumps on their LHDs, because to do that would effectively turn those LHDs into pretty cost effective mini-carriers, which the USN fears might become a threat to their big and expensive flat tops.
If the marines were allowed to have ski jumps or even catapults on their LHDs, I think they would have been happy to do away without VTOL altogether and just use F35Cs.
The Harrier and F35B are aircraft with unique capabilities and undeniable cool factor. But aside from landings and take-offs, it's VTOL capabilities is of extremely limited operational utility.
Hovering a jet is not a terribly good idea in air combat or CAS, as it literally makes the jet a sitting target liable to get shot down real easily and quickly (the marines are famous for never even putting their attack helicopters into hover in combat), and also unsustainable because of the massive fuel consumption that flight mode costs.
If China wants a fixed wing fastjet capacity on their future LHDs, the far easier and more sensible approach would be to add ski jumps or catapults to them rather than go down the VTOL route.
- Status