Shenyang FC-31 / J-31 Fighter Demonstrator

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mack8

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The resolution is too low to tell, but I doubt that the engines have been changed. The engine nacelles were designed for a different engine, and the RD93s are just stand-ins to get the bird in the air and start the ball rolling on flight tests before the final engines are ready, same as with the J20, and the chances that they have swapped the RDs for the final production engines since the first pictures appeared are pretty much non-existent.

Adding a cover for the gap would hardly be a pressing technical requirement, but it isn't a demanding piece of engineering either, so it is entirely possible that they had fashioned some more tight fitting covers since the first pictures came out. They could have literally got a couple of interns fresh out of university to design it and the production people could bash them out in an afternoon. As such, I think it is entirely possible that they have put in new snug fitting covers.

Imo, i think those gaps seen in the first pictures that everybody is/ was talking about are there for a very good reason , i.e. aerodynamic and /or temperature considerents dictating the shape of the engine fairing, only that back then the shrouds that were sealing those gaps smoothly were not there ( probably the engines have just been installed). If you look at JF-17 or even J-20 you will see the same arrangement, if you'd see a picture of them without that last piece of the engine shroud between the nozzle and the fairing , you'll have the same impression that the engine/s it stands in for something else and they look like an afterthought.

Mind you, i know the J-20 engines are not definitive, but the rumoured WS-15 can't be that different size-wise compared to the present ones. As for J-31, imo those engines are either RD-93 or WS-13 (which someone said it's hard to distinguish from RD-93!) . It is a relatively small aircraft , so nothing bigger will fit there. Anyway , just look at all those CGI's around, it gives a good idea of the engine fairing shape especially towards the nozzles.

Looking forward to some good news and especially pics tomorrow. Hope all goes well.
 
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Blitzo

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The resolution is too low to tell, but I doubt that the engines have been changed. The engine nacelles were designed for a different engine, and the RD93s are just stand-ins to get the bird in the air and start the ball rolling on flight tests before the final engines are ready, same as with the J20, and the chances that they have swapped the RDs for the final production engines since the first pictures appeared are pretty much non-existent.

Adding a cover for the gap would hardly be a pressing technical requirement, but it isn't a demanding piece of engineering either, so it is entirely possible that they had fashioned some more tight fitting covers since the first pictures came out. They could have literally got a couple of interns fresh out of university to design it and the production people could bash them out in an afternoon. As such, I think it is entirely possible that they have put in new snug fitting covers.

Yep I don't think it's a new engine either, my implication was that they have finally put some cowlings over it.

As for the grey radome, well I think that is just a bit of clever theatrics on the part of SAC. They know they have a hell of a lot of ground to catch up with compared to the J20, and evidently believes that appearances matter, so they are making their prototype as pretty and as polished as possible. Note the emblems that they took the time to paint on the tails.

The first prototype needs a lot of test equipment to record indicators and information a production jet would not care about because they need to test and verify a hell of a lot of data to evaluate how well the design flies. That is why the nose of the first flying prototype has always been taken up with flight test equipment in all remotely modern designs, and it would be highly irregular for SAC to break with that well established system.

Theoretically, with 5th gens, I guess it is possible for them to store all the flight test equipment in the weapons bays, and thus not have to use the space in the radome as you would on a conventional fighter, but I really don't see the point in doing that.

They could test out the radar and back end avionics far more efficiently in a dedicated radar testing platform, as we have seen with the radars for the J10 and J11B. Stuffing a working radar in the nose of the first prototype will just add extra complications and likely lead to a lengthy delay in the first flight date, and the first prototype would be so busy with basic flight tests to have any time for radar tests so it all just seem so pointless.

Maybe SAC painted the radome grey because someone thought that would make a favorable impression with some PLAAF/PLANAF big wigs, or they would have just done it because someone at SAC thought the two tone contrast would look cooler compared to monotone (which is does). But I seriously doubt that the first prototype would ever have a working radar in it.

I agree with you.

But if this really is a private venture I wouldn't put it past them to go with some freaky accelerated test schedule.


Chances are it is just a different shade of paint though.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
Imo, i think those gaps seen in the first pictures that everybody is/ was talking about are there for a very good reason , i.e. aerodynamic and /or temperature considerents dictating the shape of the engine fairing, only that back then the shrouds that were sealing those gaps smoothly were not there ( probably the engines have just been installed). If you look at JF-17 or even J-20 you will see the same arrangement, if you'd see a picture of them without that last piece of the engine shroud between the nozzle and the fairing , you'll have the same impression that the engine/s it stands in for something else and they look like an afterthought.

Mind you, i know the J-20 engines are not definitive, but the rumoured WS-15 can't be that different size-wise compared to the present ones. As for J-31, imo those engines are either RD-93 or WS-13 (which someone said it's hard to distinguish from RD-93!) . It is a relatively small aircraft , so nothing bigger will fit there. Anyway , just look at all those CGI's around, it gives a good idea of the engine fairing shape especially towards the nozzles.

Looking forward to some good news and especially pics tomorrow. Hope all goes well.

That is all assuming that the back end of those aircraft were designed to take a specific engine.

The J10 famously had to switch from the WS10 to the AL31 during development, but there is every chance that the original design allowed to WS10(or rather WS10A now) to be retro-fitted later. The fact that there appears to be no external changes between J10Bs with AL31 and WS10As would support this theory.

Similarly, the J20 was always designed to use WS15s, which may well have slightly different dimensions to the AL31/WS10A they have installed already.

Even the JF17 has been designed with modular design from the start, which would allow for the installing of different engine options based on the requirements of the customers.

If spacing was required for some fundamental purpose, you would expect to see that quite consistently on planes of all nationalities. But most designs from other countries, many of which which use the same engines as the J10 and JF17, do not have similarly sized gaps between their engines and their nacelles.

SAC itself is no stranger to switching engines, as they have done with the AL31 and WS10A on their various flanker variants.

With all that in mind, I think it is quietly likely that the gaps we can see on many modern Chinese designs are put there because China's engine sector still lags behind the rest of it's aviation industry, and as such, the designers were forced to make do with engines that were available instead of what they wanted. However, in order to not limit the potential of their designs, they could have designed the aft of their fighters to allow for the easy installation of engines of slightly different dimensions so that their designs can meet their full potential once the suitable engines become available. As such, it is entirely possible that the J31 was designed and built with oversized engine nacelles to allow for the retrofitting of a more powerful fifth gen engine once that because available.

Leaving such a large gap in the fuselage of a plane is ever a great idea, because all sorts of foreign objects can easily get into the plane that way, and exposing the insides of the plane to the elements like that could also cause you all sorts of maintenance headaches down the line. Considering the tiny effort it would take to design and install a cover, I would be pretty surprised if they do not both to cover that gap up at some point.
 

no_name

Colonel
High speed taxing taken place, landing wheel was 1m off the ground.

The event is receiving coverage and filming as we speak, don't know when the footage would be available :D

根据现场视频回放发现,刚才高滑时,小黑已离地约一米…
有视频 求放视频……
 
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Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
High speed taxing taken place, landing wheel was 1m off the ground.

The event is receiving coverage and filming as we speak, don't know when the footage would be available :D

Awsome no-name, and thanks for posting, I am assuming you are referring to the nose gear, and that would imply that they reached rotation speed. As an aircraft accelerates down the runway, when sufficient speed is reached you may apply aft stick to rotate the nose gear off the ground to a lift off attitude, if power is left in the aircraft will continue to accerate to liftoff speed, and the aircraft will be airborne, or carried by the air. It is polite and appropriate to lighten the load on the nose gear as its structure is usually lighter than the mains, so on take off, it is "rotated", on landing it is "flared". On takeoff rotation allows you to lift off at a lower airspeed, on landing it allows you to touch down at a lower airspeed, all good and saves on airframe abuse, oleos, wing attach points etc. etc brakes, tires. Hope the boys at Shenyang are proud enough to post these pictures?
 

delft

Brigadier
Awsome no-name, and thanks for posting, I am assuming you are referring to the nose gear, and that would imply that they reached rotation speed. As an aircraft accelerates down the runway, when sufficient speed is reached you may apply aft stick to rotate the nose gear off the ground to a lift off attitude, if power is left in the aircraft will continue to accerate to liftoff speed, and the aircraft will be airborne, or carried by the air. It is polite and appropriate to lighten the load on the nose gear as its structure is usually lighter than the mains, so on take off, it is "rotated", on landing it is "flared". On takeoff rotation allows you to lift off at a lower airspeed, on landing it allows you to touch down at a lower airspeed, all good and saves on airframe abuse, oleos, wing attach points etc. etc brakes, tires. Hope the boys at Shenyang are proud enough to post these pictures?
You design the undercarriage to have low induced drag and thus lift, otherwise you increase the take off run unnecessarily. You rotate to increase lift coefficient to some optimal value to achieve flight at a safe speed and at least a minimum climb gradient, also taking account in the case of multi engine aircraft of the failure of one engine.
 

Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
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The next 2 days are auspicious dates to have the first flight.
1031 & 111, coincidence ?

Agreed .... but IMO the similarity is more to the J-20's maiden flight:

J-20 ... first flight on January 11. (1.11)
J-31 ... first flight on November 1. (11.1) ... maybe

Deino
 
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