Russian Su-57 Aircraft Thread (PAK-FA and IAF FGFA)

kwaigonegin

Colonel
this thing is just beyond gorgeous, I would love to see the J-20 with a similar paint, I really think that is also a pretty airplane, but this chick is the "bomb". That they fly a full aerobatic routine this early in developement is more Russian bravado, but it does speak well of its "manners", it no doubt flys very well. If "Ivan" threw me the keys, I would fire it up and fly it, that's how much confidence I have in its manners, I would like a little sim time and a cockpit check, but hey I'm game. Mig 21, 23, 25, or 31?? NO WAY!

I betcha that plane is easy to fly. Anyone with 40 + hours, some instrument training and couple more in a pakfa sim should be able to drive her easy. I would love to take her for a spin.
Now the MiGs or earlier Sukhois will kill ya in a heartbeat ... not too different than earlier American interceptors like the f4s, six shooters, star fighters etc ...mainly the f 100 series. They will kill you if you're inexperienced. Extremely high pilot workload, very fast, unforgiving and no computers to help you get out of trouble. At least this is what I've heard from those who have flown them. They don't call em flyin coffins for nuttin.
 

b787

Captain
I betcha that plane is easy to fly. Anyone with 40 + hours, some instrument training and couple more in a pakfa sim should be able to drive her easy. I would love to take her for a spin.
Now the MiGs or earlier Sukhois will kill ya in a heartbeat ... not too different than earlier American interceptors like the f4s, six shooters, star fighters etc ...mainly the f 100 series. They will kill you if you're inexperienced. Extremely high pilot workload, very fast, unforgiving and no computers to help you get out of trouble. At least this is what I've heard from those who have flown them. They don't call em flyin coffins for nuttin.
it will depend on which MiG and Sukhoi and what air force, single engine MiGs like the MiG-21 and MiG-23 were much less safe than MiG-29s and Su-27s.

Russia retired their MiG-21s and MiG-23s before the 2000s, their twin engines MiG-29s and Su-27 have good safety records.

If you consider Russia started selling MiG-29s and Su-30s with fully digital avionics their safety record is not bad in fact is comparable if not better than several western fighters, specially the ones lwith a single engine.
 

b787

Captain
this thing is just beyond gorgeous, I would love to see the J-20 with a similar paint, I really think that is also a pretty airplane, but this chick is the "bomb". That they fly a full aerobatic routine this early in developement is more Russian bravado, but it does speak well of its "manners", it no doubt flys very well. If "Ivan" threw me the keys, I would fire it up and fly it, that's how much confidence I have in its manners, I would like a little sim time and a cockpit check, but hey I'm game. Mig 21, 23, 25, or 31?? NO WAY!
The MiG-21 and MiG-23 are equivalent to the F-104 and F-4, and these were built in the late 60s and late 1970s, so they are old aircraft. to keep them flying you need a lot of money, so is not the aircraft but the lack proper of maintenance what is the risk to a pilot.


The MiG-25 has been retired since the early 200os in Russia and India and these were built in the 1970s early 1980s, they were safe aircraft.

The MiG-31s were built in the late 1970s up to the mid 1980s, they are safe aircraft, they have good records, but now they are old and some might not be in their best shape, but still they are flying and have a good record and no aircraft in the world will fly faster than the MiG-31 and while it uses afterburner it can fly supersonic for 20 minutes, so it is pretty much an aircraft many Americans pilots would like to fly
 

kwaigonegin

Colonel
it will depend on which MiG and Sukhoi and what air force, single engine MiGs like the MiG-21 and MiG-23 were much less safe than MiG-29s and Su-27s.

Russia retired their MiG-21s and MiG-23s before the 2000s, their twin engines MiG-29s and Su-27 have good safety records.

If you consider Russia started selling MiG-29s and Su-30s with fully digital avionics their safety record is not bad in fact is comparable if not better than several western fighters, specially the ones lwith a single engine.

No doubt 4th gen fighters are tons safer than 2 or even 3rd mainly with the digitization of flight controls etc.... also I didn't say they were not safe.. just much harder to fly. Like anything it all depends on the driver and the experience.
I've heard MiG 29 is not easy to fly for the novice either but once mastered it becomes very easy.
Let's just say I wouldn't want to fly one one even if given a chance for free HOWEVER I would a PAK FA because I think it's much easier to fly.
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
it will depend on which MiG and Sukhoi and what air force, single engine MiGs like the MiG-21 and MiG-23 were much less safe than MiG-29s and Su-27s.

Russia retired their MiG-21s and MiG-23s before the 2000s, their twin engines MiG-29s and Su-27 have good safety records.

If you consider Russia started selling MiG-29s and Su-30s with fully digital avionics their safety record is not bad in fact is comparable if not better than several western fighters, specially the ones lwith a single engine.
I betcha that plane is easy to fly. Anyone with 40 + hours, some instrument training and couple more in a pakfa sim should be able to drive her easy. I would love to take her for a spin.
Now the MiGs or earlier Sukhois will kill ya in a heartbeat ... not too different than earlier American interceptors like the f4s, six shooters, star fighters etc ...mainly the f 100 series. They will kill you if you're inexperienced. Extremely high pilot workload, very fast, unforgiving and no computers to help you get out of trouble. At least this is what I've heard from those who have flown them. They don't call em flyin coffins for nuttin.

I am primarily thinking of the Century Fighters, F104, in particular and the Mig-21s , they were aircraft that demanded attention and superior skill to operate, in contrast the new fighters F-22, F-35, T-50 are all much safer, and land at slower speeds to give you a safety edge, the T-50 even has an auto-land system. Master Kwai is right, they are just much safer overall.
 

b787

Captain
No doubt 4th gen fighters are tons safer than 2 or even 3rd mainly with the digitization of flight controls etc.... also I didn't say they were not safe.. just much harder to fly. Like anything it all depends on the driver and the experience.
I've heard MiG 29 is not easy to fly for the novice either but once mastered it becomes very easy.
Let's just say I wouldn't want to fly one one even if given a chance for free HOWEVER I would a PAK FA because I think it's much easier to fly.
It depends in the variant, and aircraft it self, the MiG-21 has been built in China under different guises, they call it J-7 until very recently, but Russia stopped MiG-21 production in the late 1970s or early 1980s.

India has given a bad reputation to the MiG-21 because they built theirs in the 1980s, they have not the best maintenance.

The MiG-23s were expensive to maintain, and not that different from a MiG-21 so not many air forces kept them after the fall of the Soviet lead block.

Most of the stories related to the flying qualities of these aircraft come from export models and from the 1980s, but a MiG-21 was comparable to the Mirage III, the Israelis said it was not worse, even the Americans knew it was like a F-104.

The Israelis said the MiG-23 was a F-4E equivalent, the Americans flew and even older version, the MiG-23MS, and later they received MiG-23ML from Germany,.

Germany flew analog MiG-29A (export version) built in the late 1980s. These MiG-29s were equivalent to a F-15A, so when they compared the Mig-29 they flew F-18As which were newer in avionics, but Russia was flying MiG-29Ms (prototypes) and Su-27s, which were equivalent to F-18As.

So to be honest it depends in which version and aircraft, i am sure a modern J-7 is more or less as safe as a F-16, and the modern MiG-35 as safe as a F-22.

But old MIGs well no one want to fly them
 

b787

Captain
I am primarily thinking of the Century Fighters, F104, in particular and the Mig-21s , they were aircraft that demanded attention and superior skill to operate, in contrast the new fighters F-22, F-35, T-50 are all much safer, and land at slower speeds to give you a safety edge, the T-50 even has an auto-land system. Master Kwai is right, they are just much safer overall.

American operated Su-27, they are ex-Ukrainian air force Su-27s, built in the 1980s, recently revamped and operated as civilian aircraft and to train US pilots as aggressors
American operated MiG-29s also built in the 1980s

These are not different to F-15C operated by the USAF.
Evaluation of MIG-21 by the USAF
Israeli owned MiG-23
The modern Su-35 has features of F-22s, so it bet you a modern F-22 is not that different to a modern Su-35 is safety and flying characteristics
 

b787

Captain
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just in case you didn't yet hear the recent Russian announcement:
Flight tests of Russia’s 5th-generation fighter jet "practically completed"
The tests confirming the flight characteristics of Russia’s fifth-generation PAK FA (Prospective Airborne Complex of Frontline Aviation) fighter jet have been actually completed, Deputy Defense Minister Yuri Borisov said in an interview with Rossiya 24 TV Channel on Monday.

"Several planes are now primarily testing airborne avionics. The tests proving the aircraft’s flight characteristics have practically been completed," the deputy defense minister said.

Deputy Defense Minister Borisov earlier told the media the Russian military would purchase only a squadron of PAK FA fighter jets, compensating this with a larger order for Sukhoi Su-35 (NATO reporting name: Flanker-E) fighters.

The Sukhoi PAK FA (Prospective Airborne Complex of Frontline Aviation) is a fifth-generation fighter program of the Russian Air Force. The T-50 is the name of the prototype aircraft designed by Sukhoi for the PAK FA program. The aircraft is a stealthy, single-seat, twin-engine jet fighter, and will be the first operational aircraft in Russian service to use stealth technology. It is a multipurpose fighter designed for the air superiority and attack roles. The fighter is planned to have super-cruise, stealth, super-manoeuvrability and advanced avionics to overcome the prior generation of fighter aircraft as well as ground and maritime defences.

The PAK FA is intended to be the successor to the MiG-29 and Su-27 in the Russian Air Force and serve as the basis for the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft being co-developed by Sukhoi and Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) for the Indian Air Force. PAK FA fighter first flew in 2010.
source:
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from the photo-gallery in it:
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