Russian Su-57 Aircraft Thread (PAK-FA and IAF FGFA)
- Thread starter A Bar Brother
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Wow. Amazing shots
D
Deleted member 13312
Guest
"Turkey said to eye Russian Su-57 after US threatens to ban sale of F-35"
As much as the Russian media would like to hype this, I seriously doubt that this would ever come to pass. Leaving aside the huge sum of money that LM would stand to lose if they can't sell 120 F-35s to Turkey. There is the bigger question of financing the whole project. Russia may claim the Su-57 to be in active service, but in reality it would still take a period of time and a wad of cash before the Su-57 would reach a point where it is credible enough to be accepted into production.
Buying a SAM system with an established production line is one thing, buying a fighter that has yet to even reach LRP in its native country is a whole other kettle of fish. If even India with its considerably larger wallet, is put off by the project's demands. There is little reason to expect Turkey with its much smaller budget can afford to support the Su-57's development, regardless of how reasonable they can be.
As much as the Russian media would like to hype this, I seriously doubt that this would ever come to pass. Leaving aside the huge sum of money that LM would stand to lose if they can't sell 120 F-35s to Turkey. There is the bigger question of financing the whole project. Russia may claim the Su-57 to be in active service, but in reality it would still take a period of time and a wad of cash before the Su-57 would reach a point where it is credible enough to be accepted into production.
Buying a SAM system with an established production line is one thing, buying a fighter that has yet to even reach LRP in its native country is a whole other kettle of fish. If even India with its considerably larger wallet, is put off by the project's demands. There is little reason to expect Turkey with its much smaller budget can afford to support the Su-57's development, regardless of how reasonable they can be.
Lethe
Captain
Silly article. If Su-57 were ever to fly in Turkish colours it would not be soon. There would be no question of Turkey "supporting the development" of the aircraft -- only the commercial arrangements of its manufacture, indigenous component substitution, delivery and ongoing support.
That there appears to be a significant faction in the US government opposed to supplying Turkey with the defence articles it requires (and breaking more contracts in the process) is good and sufficient reason for Turkey to be exploring avenues to reduce its reliance upon American whims, however. Indeed, this is undoubtedly one of the major drivers behind the TF-X project, although that exposes it to European whims.
Talking to Russia is sensible. Ankara should also be talking to Beijing.
That there appears to be a significant faction in the US government opposed to supplying Turkey with the defence articles it requires (and breaking more contracts in the process) is good and sufficient reason for Turkey to be exploring avenues to reduce its reliance upon American whims, however. Indeed, this is undoubtedly one of the major drivers behind the TF-X project, although that exposes it to European whims.
Talking to Russia is sensible. Ankara should also be talking to Beijing.
plawolf
Lieutenant General
The J20 is not for sale, and the J31 is in an even earlier stage of development than the PAKFA, with no concrete support from the Chinese military to date.
Russia is the best alternative at present, but I think this was more of a way to put pressure on the US rather than a serious attempt to get the PAKFA.
Lethe
Captain
Sure. Hypothetically, if the US were to deny Turkey access to the F-35, it would be a number of years before an alternative could even begin to be delivered -- probably 2025 at the earliest, and that's if the direction to be pursued is clear and negotiations go smoothly. That J-31 is a developmental aircraft might even make it more attractive to Turkey by offering Turkish industry more opportunities (and more competitive opportunities) to participate and Turkish AF to have some level of input.
Combat aircraft aside, in the long run I think China should be able to cultivate some level of defence-industrial relationship with Turkey. The folly of relying exclusively on a single nation (i.e. USA) is clear, and a US-European duo isn't much better. Turkey's relations with Russia are currently good, but we do not have to go back far to find when they were not, and indeed the two nations have many overlapping areas of interest where their relationship could become strained. In contrast, China has very little to do with Turkey or its neighbourhood. There is thus little prospect of a Chinese-Turkish relationship becoming seriously strained in the way that could occur with US-Turkish, European-Turkish or Russo-Turkish relations. As such I think China would be a valuable partner for Turkish defence industries.
I suspect there might be some cultural issues to be overcome, as with nations like Argentina that see themselves as basically 'western' and therefore averse to products that are not (even when those products are clearly the most suitable offerings on the market). More specifically, China has arguably yet to prove its credentials at the highest levels of technology and development that are beyond Turkish industry. Most of the products that China sells abroad are products that Turkey could produce itself, even if funds limit what they actually do in practice. But China's prestige in the eyes of nations like Turkey will increase over time. A friendly port call from a Type 055 would no doubt impress.
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Jura The idiot
General
newly released drone footage:
timepass
Brigadier
How an Old F-15 Just Might Kill Russia's New Stealth Su-57 in a 'Dogfight'...
"The venerable Boeing F-15C Eagle has long been hailed as the world’s greatest air superiority fighter given its lopsided combat record of 104 kills to zero losses, however, the aging jet is likely near the end of its operational life. Nonetheless, it remains a potent fighter even as it likely heads toward retirement.
Lockheed Martin is currently developing the Legion pod, which will afford the F-15C a long wave Infrared Search and Track (IRST) capability. Lockheed Martin expects to produce more than 130 Legion pods, which are equipped with the company's IRST21 infrared sensor and advanced data processing capabilities to provide long-range detection and tracking of airborne threats in “radar-denied environments.” Boeing, which serves as the U.S. Air Force's prime contractor, is expected to award Lockheed Martin an engineering, manufacturing, development and production contract for the Legion pod sometime this year."
"The venerable Boeing F-15C Eagle has long been hailed as the world’s greatest air superiority fighter given its lopsided combat record of 104 kills to zero losses, however, the aging jet is likely near the end of its operational life. Nonetheless, it remains a potent fighter even as it likely heads toward retirement.
Lockheed Martin is currently developing the Legion pod, which will afford the F-15C a long wave Infrared Search and Track (IRST) capability. Lockheed Martin expects to produce more than 130 Legion pods, which are equipped with the company's IRST21 infrared sensor and advanced data processing capabilities to provide long-range detection and tracking of airborne threats in “radar-denied environments.” Boeing, which serves as the U.S. Air Force's prime contractor, is expected to award Lockheed Martin an engineering, manufacturing, development and production contract for the Legion pod sometime this year."
Hyperwarp
Captain
In a dogfight, any 5th gen fighter is vulnerable to 4th gen fighters armed with new generation SRAAM like AIM-9X, IRIS-T, ASRAAM, Python-5, etc.