Russian Su-57 Aircraft Thread (PAK-FA and IAF FGFA)

[Hyperwarp]

Su-57 has the shaping and elements of stealth fighters ie internal bays, passive sensors, LPI AESA radar(s). It is obvious enough to the naked eye that it is not a stealthy fighter though. Slightly exposed fan blades ...

By your own logic the F-117, YF-23 and X-32 were not really stealth fighters. S-Ducts aren't the only ways to hide the engine face. Su-57 requires a complicate blocker similar to the X-32.

 

[ougoah]

As someone else previously pointed out, there is no consensus on where we draw the line between stealthy and not stealthy. In that quote of mine, "not stealthy" is in comparison to other recent efforts from the US and China. F-117, YF-23, X-32 don't have the other "non-stealthy" features that is present on Su-57. It is clearly an effort to build a stealthy fighter but certain things make it fall short. On the exposed fan blades, perhaps they do have a blocker or they've perfected the spray that was talked about years ago. I don't claim to know, but it is available knowledge that the fan blades are visible from certain angles. So as it stands, maybe they have a workaround but maybe they don't. The lack of completely hidden fan blades should be mentioned though, of course with the disclaimer that they could have resolved these issues. I was fair in my comments and have included all of those disclaimers everywhere just in case people's feelings get hurt. BTW not calling anyone in particular intellectually challenged. Definitely not Tirdent (agree with many of your points). That comment was more aimed at readers because the misunderstanding behind the luneburg lense and ECM could be confusing and the point needed to be mentioned. In any case, that misunderstanding between us is just that and nothing more. It just seemed to me, that your comment re J-20 was to insinuate the comparative electronic weakness of J-20 in the radar spoofing department only because it was observed with LL.

 

[Gloire_bb]

As someone else previously pointed out, there is no consensus on where we draw the line between stealthy and not stealthy.

The most reasonable difference is aircraft designed as a stealth one from scratch, opposed to dedicated and extensive treatment (F/A-18E).
Even this is not an and, since some aircraft known to not care much about any stealth are known to be quite sneaky the on radar screen (mig-21 head on).

 

[Jura The idiot]

LOL what a question Is Russia holding back on why it deployed fifth-gen fighters to Syria?

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Following media speculation and online videos about the supposed

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of at least four Russian Su-57 fighter jets in Syria, Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu has publicly said only two of the fifth-generation stealth fighters were carrying out two-day combat testing missions in Syria.

“They really were there. Not for long, just two days. Over this time they conducted a trial program, including a combat trial,” Shoigu told journalists March 1. “I can tell you that the trial was successful; the planes returned home a week ago.”

However, defense observers have been left wondering if there’s more to why the aircraft was deployed to Syria.

A military source said on condition of anonymity that “the deployment of the Russian stealth aircraft in Khmeimim Air Base would be a great opportunity to test the T-50’s configuration in an area where a large number of U.S. F-22 stealth jets operate.”

The Su-57 was known as the T-50 prior to its official designation.

“The so-called PAK-FA can’t yet fly, but it can definitely spy”, the source added, referring to the program from which the aircraft originated. “The aircraft is barely ready for ground-attack operations and will not make a real difference in an actual combat environment at this time.”

In January, the U.S. Air Force deputy chief of staff for intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance, Lt. Gen. VeraLinn “Dash” Jamieson, asserted that “the skies over Iraq and specifically Syria have really just been a treasure trove for them [Russians] to see how we operate.”

“Our adversaries are watching us — they’re learning from us,” she said at an Air Force Association briefing hosted by the Mitchell Institute for Aerospace Studies.

For his part, Siemon Wezeman, a senior researcher on the arms and military expenditure program at the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, believes Russia may have several reasons for using the aircraft in Syria, but putting its newest stealth jet through combat is probably not one of them.

“Most likely, the Su-57 deployment is an indication that Russia has been working on some advanced weapons and should thus be taken seriously as a major power in the region and worldwide,” Wezeman said. “Second, Russia might have planned to test its aircraft in a real combat environment where other aircraft and air defense systems are active.

“Western countries now get a close-up look on the Su-57, which will allow them to test their own systems against it.”

Last month, Russian Deputy Defence Minister Yuri Borisov revealed that the ministry is going to sign a contract for the first squadron of 12 Su-57s this year. He also said at the time that the first stage of trials was over and the Su-57 will soon undergo experimental combat training.

Military expert Brig. Gen. Naji Malaeb said that following Russian President Vladimir Putin’s speech on the country’s

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— especially a nuclear-powered engine that can be equipped on missiles assigned to fifth-generation aircraft — “it seems that Syria has become not more than a test field to all those new technologies.”

Malaeb, who is the editor in chief of sdarabia.com, which is a partner of Defense News, added that the Russian Ministry of Defence has been “boasting about testing not less than 200 weapons in Syria,” and perhaps this new engine was included in the testing initiative.

And Putin has something to gain, with Russian elections just around the corner. “Putin’s unveil of new weapons could really increase confidence in its own government,” Malaeb said.

The Su-57, which took to the skies for the first time in 2010, will replace the Russian Air Force’s existing stock of MiG-29s and Su-27s in the coming decade. In total, the Russian Air Force is expected to field about 220 Su-57s between 2020 and 2030.

 

[Deino]

T50-10 - 20180321

 

[Jura The idiot]

two PAKFAs to take part in the Victory Day Parade this year:

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[Jura The idiot]

since there's
IAF FGFA
in the name of this thread ... according to Jane's (dated 20 April 2018) India withdraws from FGFA project, leaving Russia to go it alone

Key Points

• India has pulled out of its 11-year collaborative programme with Russia to build a Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft
• The decision has ramifications for both the IAF and the Russian aerospace industry

The Indian Air Force (IAF) has shelved its 11-year old collaborative Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) programme with Russia following enduring differences over its developmental cost and technological capabilities.

Senior Indian officials, including National Security Adviser Ajit Doval and Defence Secretary Sanjay Mitra, recently informed a visiting Russian ministerial delegation that India was withdrawing from the programme, official sources told Jane’s on 20 April.

The Indian officials are believed to have stated that the IAF could, at a later date, ‘revisit’ the FGFA project or alternatively acquire the fully developed platform once it had been inducted into the Russian Air Force, but did not elaborate.

Industry officials said the FGFA project, in which India’s state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) was the lead developmental agency, also did not feature in talks during Defence Minister Nirmala Sitharaman’s visit to Moscow in early April.

“The FGFA project had become an instance of too little, too late,” said military analyst and retired air marshal V K Bhatia. To pursue it any longer would not have served the IAF interests in any way as it struggles to make up fast-depleting fighter numbers, he added.

The IAF believes that the Sukhoi Su-57 (T-50 PAK-FA) fighter, which India’s Ministry of Defence (MoD) designated the Perspective Multi-Role Fighter, does not meet its requirements for stealth, combat avionics, radars and sensors. Seven FGFA prototypes are currently undergoing flight-testing in Russia, but for now there is no indication as to when the platform is likely to enter series production.

...

... and the rest is behind paywall:

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[ougoah]

Where are all those people claiming Su-57 is ultimate best of best blah blah... All those guys on other forums defending the stealthiness and ability of PakFA before any facts even came out and when it was so obviously not stealthy even to unqualified observers. Wonder what those guys think now? Perhaps these same people are also wrong about J-20 being unstealthy like they are wrong about Su-57 being stealthy

 

[taxiya]

since there's
IAF FGFA
in the name of this thread ... according to Jane's (dated 20 April 2018) India withdraws from FGFA project, leaving Russia to go it alone
... and the rest is behind paywall:

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The title is very strange. FGFA is an INDIAN project from the very beginning, it is not Russian. Russia is providing the template (PAKFA) for an India demanded aircraft, which the Russian air force may or may not pick up in the future. If India withdraw, FGFA will be put in the freezer until India decides to "revisit" at a later stage. Russia is not going it alone.

 

[taxiya]

Where are all those people claiming Su-57 is ultimate best of best blah blah... All those guys on other forums defending the stealthiness and ability of PakFA before any facts even came out and when it was so obviously not stealthy even to unqualified observers. Wonder what those guys think now? Perhaps these same people are also wrong about J-20 being unstealthy like they are wrong about Su-57 being stealthy

There was only one member (with multiple names) in this forum who has made such claim. That person has been banned forever. You may be confused SDF with posts from other forums?