Russian Su-57 Aircraft Thread (PAK-FA and IAF FGFA)

[b787]

feel better now B787?? ,,, calling people who disagree with your little theories "morons" and because you gave the Rafale a half a compliment,,(even Rafale?), no doubt Master Forbin will agree with you right???

and what does $60,000 a flight hour have to do with L/O, or PAK-FA, Mr. Lazer-beam???

you probably shouldn't be referring to others as "morons",,, be careful with that "Laser Gun" dude, if you practice your quick draw in the mirror?? "remember, everything reflects"? you could fry your-self???

oh, and very nice pictures in the "light spectrum"?? the PAK-FA is a pretty thang anyway!

sorry if i did offend you without wanting, my sincere apologies, however i do not think stealth is as effective for two reasons
first economically it is too expensive, you have to admit $60000 dollars per a single hour is very expensive, a pilot flying an hour basically is burning what most Americans make in a year, Su-35 is cheaper than PAKFA, and i guess many Russians do not make in one year what it cost to fly Su-57 a single hour, so the Russian government is opting to buy super Flankers

Pierre Spray says something similar

Second nothing is truly stealth, they are only harder to see, low observable and better sensors will detect them at a fraction of what they cost.

if i consider the unit price of a single F-22 equals at least to the price of 2 MS-21 airliners but the airliners make money, F-22 just spends money!

a single hour of flying a F-22 is enough to buy me 3 cars or even a house, come on the reason F-15 and F-18Es will continue flying is that.

Imagine how expensive is PAKFA to just get 12 machines In three or four years, Su-35 is so expensive than in almost a decade of manufacturing only 96 are going to be operational.

the USSR built 600 Su-27 in less than 9 years.

just imagine the cost if one is lost on the ground!

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[FORBIN]

if you cared to read the whole article, and read a little of physics and optics, you will know why they say this
easy


why? only true stealth is possible with gases and that is a very relative statement smoke is black and the sky is blue, solid things always will reflect back electromagnetic waves and diffraction, reflection will do their work, F-22 is not stealth, to give you a hint F-22 is solid and built with many types of materials, only morons think the 0.001 figure works for every radar.

Radars were weak in the 1990, today the wattage available in Su-35 and in S-500/S-400s is higher than a 1980s AWACS.

in the light spectrum F-22 is very easy to see; computer power, wave frequency and the wattage used by new radars have increased the ability to render stealth useless.

stealth works only when power density is low, there are few radars, absence of data link is present and computer power is low.

in real life supercruise is more important, it allows for a shorter detection window, a narrower no escape zone for the missile.

Su-57 is built considering speed will always make it harder to defeat.

I can assure you even Rafale, with better radars will beat stealth fighters, stealth will become obsolete, speed and maneuverability will never be out of air combat, laser guns have more future than stealth specially when F-22 costs USD $60000 dollars the flight hour.

And yet these figures are everywhere... !

For the rest we have enough agree not sure a stealth fighters remains very few vulnerable in the futur.

 

[FORBIN]

feel better now B787?? ,,, calling people who disagree with your little theories "morons" and because you gave the Rafale a half a compliment,,(even Rafale?), no doubt Master Forbin will agree with you right???

and what does $60,000 a flight hour have to do with L/O, or PAK-FA, Mr. Lazer-beam???

you probably shouldn't be referring to others as "morons",,, be careful with that "Laser Gun" dude, if you practice your quick draw in the mirror?? "remember, everything reflects"? you could fry your-self???

oh, and very nice pictures in the "light spectrum"?? the PAK-FA is a pretty thang anyway!

Ofc not and i am not here for chauvinism or propaganda... we have sadly some specialists out... for do that i let' s them in their dreams and they get wrong !

Justely one post LOL

But the Jedi even in a super sophisticated fighter have always mirrors and an eye on

 

[b787]

And yet these figures are everywhere... !

For the rest we have enough agree not sure a stealth fighters remains very few vulnerable in the futur.

of course the figures are there, but if you know basic optics, you are smart enough to know that stealth is only signature reduction, and you have two ways to render stealth useless, one is very simple, increase the power of your radar, nothing is truly stealth if you know light is working as radar waves, to see farther in darkness you get a lamp with more power of illumination, in few words you get higher power density radars, the other is get more lamps, you get more radars aka data link.

RAM is like dark things, absorbe light, but sadly even with enough light, dark things are visible, further more, radar waves are not particles, even you tilt the reflection angle, some radar energy always goes back to the source.

RAM also works for only specific frequencies.

Do you think if stealth was so good, the Russians would buy more Su-35s cutting Su-57 production? or Boeing would propose buying more Super Hornets instead of F-35?

Stealth works in terms of forcing the enemy to upgrade its radar network thus spend money, but stealth is not magic, ignorant people think it is because they do not see, their eyes are basically passive radars.

Do i surely believe with better sensors Rafale or Su-35 can beat stealth fighters? yes i do, and so is Dassault, Sukhoi and Boeing

 

[FriedRiceNSpice]

of course the figures are there, but if you know basic optics, you are smart enough to know that stealth is only signature reduction, and you have two ways to render stealth useless, one is very simple, increase the power of your radar, nothing is truly stealth if you know light is working as radar waves, to see farther in darkness you get a lamp with more power of illumination, in few words you get higher power density radars, the other is get more lamps, you get more radars aka data link.

RAM is like dark things, absorbe light, but sadly even with enough light, dark things are visible, further more, radar waves are not particles, even you tilt the reflection angle, some radar energy always goes back to the source.

RAM also works for only specific frequencies.

Do you think if stealth was so good, the Russians would buy more Su-35s cutting Su-57 production? or Boeing would propose buying more Super Hornets instead of F-35?

Stealth works in terms of forcing the enemy to upgrade its radar network thus spend money, but stealth is not magic, ignorant people think it is because they do not see, their eyes are basically passive radars.

Do i surely believe with better sensors Rafale or Su-35 can beat stealth fighters? yes i do, and so is Dassault, Sukhoi and Boeing

Good analysis, there is definite need and role for both stealth and non stealth aircraft. But I dont think that's the main reason Boeing is proposing the F-18 over the F-35

 

[Julio Ramos]

People, you understand that if you are so close to a fighter, any fighter, that means he didn't not find you?
How do you think you can get so close without being in his radar before?

 

[FORBIN]

Russia’s 5th gen fighter jet Su-57, bomber Su-34, multirole fighter Su-35

 

[Air Force Brat]

Do you think if stealth was so good, the Russians would buy more Su-35s cutting Su-57 production? or Boeing would propose buying more Super Hornets instead of F-35?

Myself and others have pointed out to you that the SU-57 is NOT much more stealthy than the SU-35,,, but here you have acknowledged it out of your own mouth, and it is in "writing"!

and that my friend, is why the Russians aren't building them by the hundreds, and are instead falling back on their old school high zoot Flanker!

Remember, a Flanker, is a Flanker, is a Flanker! SU-57 is a high zoot, fancy Flanker,,, very kool, flys very well, extremely maneuverable, but still not very good "L/O" characteristics, the Russians would tell you that themselves.

This has NO bearing on the outstanding properties of the J-20, F-22, or F-35,,, they are in very high demand, and they are indeed each very stealthy, and very dangerous to anyone in an old 4 Gen!

 

[b787]

Myself and others have pointed out to you that the SU-57 is NOT much more stealthy than the SU-35,,, but here you have acknowledged it out of your own mouth, and it is in "writing"!

and that my friend, is why the Russians aren't building them by the hundreds, and are instead falling back on their old school high zoot Flanker!

Remember, a Flanker, is a Flanker, is a Flanker! SU-57 is a high zoot, fancy Flanker,,, very kool, flys very well, extremely maneuverable, but still not very good "L/O" characteristics, the Russians would tell you that themselves.

This has NO bearing on the outstanding properties of the J-20, F-22, or F-35,,, they are in very high demand, and they are indeed each very stealthy, and very dangerous to anyone in an old 4 Gen!

the problem is RCS is a technical way to say what % will be scattered back to the radar, but that is also propaganda, the Russians know that too.

the RCS is measured also upon radar power, i will exemplify it to you this way, two groups of archers on horse back fight each other at night, to see the enemy they use torches, lamps and spotlights.

the one having the better light will win, if they move fast, the enemy will have problems hitting the enemy with their arrows.

to put it in simple words the radar on a MiG-21 from 1975 with less power will see the F-22 at let us say in a range of 4 km
the radar on a MiG-23 from 1985 with little bit more power will see the F-22 at let us say in a range of 15 km
the radar on a MiG-29 from 1995 with little bit more power will see the F-22 at let us say in a range of 25 km

the radar on a Su-35 from 2015 with little bit more power will see the F-22 at let us say in a range of 90 km

if you understand that you will understand RCS is not fixed,it depends upon the radar's computer power, power of illumination, and frequency used.

many radar developers claim the can detect stealth aircraft at ranges to simply make stealth useless

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the reason Su-57 has stealth features is only to complicate the things too to the adversaries, but with advances in radar that cost less, well stealth will be too expensive and ineffective too

 

[b787]

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from the 105th air force celebration

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