Well, you don't have to take the Kremlin's word for it. Commercial satellite imagery of the missile base in question shows that silos have been undergoing preparations to accept new missiles and a couple of weeks ago Avangard was formally declared and *demonstrated* to US representatives under New-START treaty provisions. It's real.
Russian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.
- Thread starter tphuang
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Jura The idiot
General
oh their propaganda used to be pretty successful (around 2014 and '15) I mean internationally, now the miracles their present are better suited for domestic consumption
Brumby
Major
Every design is a product of trade offs and its service life contribution is a sum of different moving parts. No entity be it a sovereign state or a commercial organisation has infinite resources. Financial consideration is an objective arbiter of a product's contribution. Faulting lack of financial resources in my opinion is just blame shifting The fact is the Alfa and the Sierra ()both Titanium hull) had a very limited production run say compared to the Akula. This is testimony of a product by an entity that really matters - the Russians. .
Brumby
Major
Without doubt HGV is a serious threat and the US got a kick in its butt for sleep walking while China and Russia was busy with hypersonic developments.
I don't believe much details are known or that could be verified about Avantgard particularly its maneuverability. Russian statements could have 10 % truth value and 90 % propaganda - we simply con't know.
The question is its down range maneuverability not just down range and at what speed and for how long.
Pictures are worth a thousand words.
The Russian communication is not that bad, considering the level of deception/lies from the USA/UK.
And honestly, I don't care too much about the weapon systems, my worry is the political decisions about whom to attack and bomb.
And there is nothing there , only deception/propaganda and lie in that regard from the official organs.
D
Deleted member 13312
Guest
Then the same can also be said about the Zumwalt about its tumultuous process that is largely hindered by finance. There is no blame shifting in my view if a product is perfoms as expected but the buyer can't afford it.
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Deleted member 13312
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The comparison is not as wide as you might think, if we look that history the Virgina can be considered a generation ahead of the Yasen with the Seawolf being the predecessor. And the comparison was to rebut the OP claim that simply being big allows for a sub to be more silent. Space is merely opportunity as you say, I would very much like to see an interior documentary of the Virigina for comparion's sake. But we can make somewhat accurate guess that the Virginia has more effort put into it by having a pump jet propulsion which is scientifically proven to reduce acoustics.
The Virginia orginial configuration it is a very modest 12 missiles and torpedo load for the sub is also much reduced compared to the Yasen. While VPM equipped Virginias will most likely never form a substantial number in the Virginia fleet as their original goal was to fulfll the roles of the Ohio class so the block IV Virginia will still continue to be the main stay of the fleet. And if we are going to bring up the VPM then Yasen M has to be included in the comparison which adds another 2 more VLS increasing the total number of missiles to 50.
Crew size and the support systems does plays a role in determining the acoustic signature of a sub I admit. But in comparison to other systems aboard the sub especially the reactor. The amount of sound that will be generated by these systems would be minuscule in comparison. For one comparison the Virginia does not have a rescue pod like the Yasen, USN have a different procedure for evacuating crews but I can't remember what it is exactly.
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Not true BTW, Kazan clearly has 8 VLS hatches like Severodvinsk. While widely quoted, I'm not sure where that claim comes from.
Also, torpedo room storage capacities aren't actually that different, within 10% (30 vs. 27 in favour of Yasen).
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Deleted member 13312
Guest
That still does not discount the fact that the Kazan has 4 more torpedo tube (6 for the orignal Yasen) then the Virgina, 4 of which are more likely a larger caliber than the ones found on the Virginia.
It term of space, it takes less space to store torpedos than to install a launch tube.
My point was more about how much internal space it frees up - everything driven by the number of crew members ends up half the size which will add up rather quickly. I'd say it easily compensates for a few torpedo tubes and a couple of weapons storage racks.
The escape chamber is located outside the hull (in the sail) so doesn't compete with silencing measures for space. In the USN, evacuation is by DSRV crew transfer or free ascent with escape suit (both of which are available on Russian boats too, the preference for escape chambers may come from an expectation of typically operating at greater depth).